Originally Posted by: tomcas929RESPONSE: The people who do those bad things should NOT be absolved of guilt. You only assume I think that because people have been trained to respond that way. I merely stated my views on why things are the way they are. The big picture as I see it.[/quote]I still have problems with the idea of punishing companies for things that happened well over a century ago and under the leadership of people who are long, long, LONG dead.

Originally Posted by: tomcas929Problems don't get fixed from the bottom up, they get fixed from the top down.

Problems get fixed from the bottom up all the time.

Just look at the Environmental consciousness of oil companies in certain parts of Indonesia; not because the oil company is nescessarily committed to being "green" or because the government requires it, but because the local tribes made it abundantly clear that if the forest they revere and depend upon for their survival was destroyed, they'd start killing people.

Dolphin Safe Tuna is another more local, well known example; the movement was entirely consumer driven and (as far as I know) still isn't legally required of fisherman.



[QUOTE=tomcas929]It does not mean they are absolved. I'm not offering answers, just stating facts as I know them to encourage thought for real solutions.
-Believe me, I'm not a bleeding heart. I believe welfare is bad but only because it's set up to perpetuate that lifestyle, so the businesses that profit from those programs can keep taking our tax dollars with the governments' permission, who then in turn give "campaign contributions". Anbody with common sense can create a program that works to get people on track, but it will never happen because that is not profitable. The fact that it makes you mad is half the reason the government wants it in place the way it is now. Keep the people divided...to divert attention from the corruption behind the scenes.

ANWAR drilling, Bush's energy policies, a lot of the shady stuff that was always swirling around Clinton -- I'd buy the "political paybacks" explaination.

Ultimately, there are more people and corporations with deep pockets that pay higher taxes because of welfare than they would otherwise need to than the few who benefit from welfare related spending.


In the end, this problem comes down to child-rearing and education and the disintegration of the family.

And, sadly, you can't make somebody learn, you can't make [usually] a father stay dedicated to his children nor can you make whoever decides to raise the child(ren) bring them up to be upstanding citizens.

Until the cultural factors encouraging these things change, any handouts or reparations will be largely wasted.