Alternate picking - How fast is fast enough?

OK, maybe a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string' question, maybe an excuse for all you guys to brag about how fast you can alternate pick :D .... but anyways...

I don't really shred, and when I do play fast it's all legato, tapping or an occasional sweep- it's only recently I've broken out the metronome and started trying to build picking speed. I can manage quarter notes at 140bpm but after that I kinda get lost in how many notes are flying by (and if I'm honest, my hand hurts!). I accent as appropriate depending on the beat division.

I know speed will come with time, but what should I have as my target speed? There doesn't seem to be space for any more notes in there, and I've seen petrucci do well over 200 with my own eyes - still don't believe it though.

Maybe I should just cheat with delay :eek:

Ah, it's not that bad, if you're uncomfortable with playing at a faster speed you should slow the tempo down to something you can handle. And when you've got that down pat, increase it a tad, maybe 5 to 10 bpm, but don't do anything you can't handle. If it hurts, you're doing something wrong. I still get lost with the metronome, so don't feel bad about that, I have a horrible sense of rhythm which I work on (not often enough though). Anyway, I'd suggest starting each practice session at 100 bpm tops then work from there. It'll be boring as hell, but you're practicing, what's so fun about that when you could be playing? Well, it's a necessary evil... if you want to get better anyway. Just take your time and you'll be fine.

Oh and when watching Petrucci, just remember, he graduated Berkley, so he's easily on a much higher level of education and experience.

You can never play too fast, as long as your playing is precise.

Originally Posted by: zreynoldspI know speed will come with time, but what should I have as my target speed? There doesn't seem to be space for any more notes in there, and I've seen petrucci do well over 200 with my own eyes - still don't believe it though.

Yeah, Petrucci, Satriani, Vai, Yngwie, Michael Romeo, Zakk Wylde, Dimebag, Laiho, they can all do it. All it takes is practice.

problem with fast picking is that although it has its place...it takes away from creative somewhat....leaves less time for slides, bends, etc etc, sry had to say it...even though this thread isnt about it.

200 bpm is fairly easy to get but u have to practice it a bit.

Playing guitar means you know what your are doing,
You are able to feel every move,
Consider what tone to choose

By way of charting progress, I can now comfortably do quarter notes alt picked at 160 bpm.... so I am getting there. It's weird now the faster you go the slower it sounds... :confused:

You know what I mean? When I started this thread I could do quarters at 140 and couldn't see any space for more notes, but the more I practiced the easier it got, and the more space I had.... duh?

Obviously, I not going to pull a malmsteen, and phrasing will always be more important to me... I just hate being in guitar shops and being shown up by a 10 year old!

In order to build up speed you should be playing very, very slowly with a metronome. You do this and pay close attention to finger positioning and hand placement. Don't even think about speed. Otherwise you'll just play fast and sloppy like everyone else. Also, playing fast is really just one very small facet of playing. Work on phrasing, scale knowledge, theory, etc. Good luck.

If you guys wanna hear some super fast picking, you should check out Rusty Cooley. The guy plays the fastest that I've ever heard and his technique is tight as hell.

According to what you said I think your improving, just practice with a metronome at 100 bpm and increase by 10 beats as you progress. 200 to 250 beats is already insane and mind boggling. Very few reach that speed at the same time maintain precision and control like Angelo Malmsteen and Petrucci.

Hold your pick at an angle as Rusty Coley and Francesco Fareri does when picking at hyper speed especialy when tremolo picking if you want to be very fast quickly, but it will make you sloppy. ( No wonder they are SOMETIMES sloppy).

Remember not to sacrifice precision, Its easy to be very fast
but very hard to be fast at the same time maintain control.

I recommend the classic and perfect Yngwie Malmsteen
way of alternate picking which to hold the pick flat in order to be accurate and smooth even at very high speed.

Try this one string passage at 100 bpm to 130

|-14-16-14-13-17-14-16-17-16-14-19-16-17-19-17-16-19---|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|
|-----------------------------------------------------------|

then this at 90 to 120

|12-8---------7-10-7--------7-8-5-------5-7-3-------3-----|e
|-----10---10--------9----9-------5---5-------3---3-------|b
|--------9-------------10-----------5-----------4----------|g
|-----------------------------------------------------------|d
|-----------------------------------------------------------|a
|-----------------------------------------------------------|e

Thats It bro. As the great Frank Zappa said. "There are 3 secrets to master the guitar and that is : "

1)Dedication 2) Practice 3) More Practice!

Marcus Paus practiced 17 to 20 plus hours a day !!
Zakk Wylde said he used to practice 18 hours a day
Vinnie Moore practiced 10 hours a day
Rusty Coley practiced 6 hours a day without miss!
Mark Tremonti practiced 7 hours a day (post Creed > Alterbridge era).

We just know how good they are now. But we did not see the countless hours and years they spent mastering and perfecting their craft.

You to can be like them.....Its just a matter of how dedicated you are and how hard you PRACTICE. I wish you all the best. Peace and ROCK ON !! :)

I can train a monkey to do fast alternate picking. One technique is not music. In fact, that one technique that you guys spend so much time developing, is not even used by the majority of guitar players in the world. Remember there's a whole world of guitarists who use fingernails. I can do both but am finding more and more that music isn't about playing the most notes in the shortest duration of time.

Everyone should check out Franco Platino's version of La Catedral.

When I was sixteen and didn't realize how silly Yngwie's bullfighter uniform looked I was very impressed with his Rising Force album. Unfortunately, Yngwie has done nothing new since then. He learned a bunch of harmonic minor scales in one key and cashed in. It would be great to hear him try to expand and branch out. Unfortunately, I think he is very lazy, fat, and rich.

His tone sucks. His playing is mindless and tasteless. He plays pre-rehearsed sequences very fast. That's about it. He also has a very suspect haircut.

when it comes to practicing picking, i dont think you need to spend 10+ hours a day! if you make sure you are doing the exact picking movements your sopposed to be doing extremely slowly and eventually increase tempo, youll get there(i think). over the years i have wasted time practicing techniques wrong, eg, picking at massive angles and picking from the finger and thumb etc. Thats years wasted doing stuff i have to spend a lot of time re-doing differently. People often say, just do whats comfortable to you, but that wont help, because bad habits feel natural after you practice with them for a bit! and you can only go so far with them. And when it comes to picking, its not explained very well and its hard to figure out by yourself.