No theory

I know virtually no theory. All I know is from what Ive learnt from playing songs by guns n roses, metallica, motley crue, Lynyrd Skynyrd etc.
I loosely know the pattern of the major/minor scale on the fret board but I couldnt say which are the root notes etc.

When I learn a song I never learn solos note for note anymore.. I guess them because through experience I can hear whats going on.

Anyway... today I was playing and recording myself. On the song "Loving the Alien" by Velvet revolver, theres a bridge before the main solo. But eager to get into some lead playing I started soloing over the bridge, planning to continue onto the actual solo.

The first chord of the bridge is D so I just went for D-major scale and concentrated around the 7th to 10th frets. I played it back and what I had played was amazing. I used my wah as a filter and slapped the toggle switch to the treble position and man just these instantaneous notes and bends I played sounded unreal. If it was on the record it might even be your favourite solo!!

My point is, lol, I just checked out some lessons on this site and man its heavy stuff. It could take a life time to understand it all. Then theres me.. I no nothing yet I can play very well.

Am I a fool for just doing what Im doing? I hear you guys saying about modes n all that but take slash... he just uses the same patterns in all his solos n hes the best in the business at rock/pop music.

The same thing happened with the song "slither" by velvet revolver. I never once looked at the tab for the solo yet I picked up my guitar and could hear he was doing bends on the 13th fret... pulling off onto the 10th.. then bends on the 15th pulling off onto the 13th... then doing a massive bend on the 15th!! Then the rest of the solo was a classic pentatonic riff that he does a lot.

So... is it ok to do this... avoid theory. Or is it gona come back to haunt me?

If you play a note thats outa key it sticks out like a sore thumb and its obvious. Do some people not notice when they do that?

In my opinion being able to playing something by ear is more valuable than theory, but theory definitely helps. Figuring out songs you can easily do with just ear, but when you want to write your own material. Theory is very valuable because it gives you ideas you may not have conceived before. An example is you probably wouldn't play a Neopolitan chord (bII7) if you don't know how it works. People without the theory knowledge may stick with this chord progression, ii V7 I. Theory (tri-tone sub) introduces you to the idea you can substitute the V7 chord with bII7, and actually produce a new sound you probably wouldn't otherwise have come up with.

As for you last question. It's not so much a note that is out of key that sticks out like a sore thumb. But a tone in the melody you want to play has a bad melodic quality. Usually referred to as bad phrasing. Also playing notes that may seem out of key is not a bad thing. Your right it sticks out like a sore thumb, but that can be good. Why? Because it immediately attracts the ear, which combats monotony. Notes out of key provoke interest. I'm not saying do this, because that is not the point. The point is having good melodic phrasing regardless of the notes. There are a ton of scales out there that have notes out of key, yet they sound good.

Yea I no that you can stick in a note thats not from the scale.. I know a few cool patterns that involve that... just from how slash has done that in the past.

When it comes to writing songs... Im a simple guy. I doubt slash or most of my fave guitarists no about neopolitan chords :confused:

All of my fave bands base there songs on pretty standard chord progressions.

Heh, If Im ever a famous guitarist I wont get much credit! I'll be another kirk hammett one trick pony guy.. but i dont mind.. I enjoy what I enjoy.

Its just really really daunting learning theory. It seems endless... like I either learn it all or none.

If you cant play, but know theory, mgiht as well be a composer.

if you dont know but can paly anyway, thats great, but it does limit you as a musician, and as long as you work sequentially throguh it, none of its gonna give you a stroke.

i have personally tried to learn theory and can get no where withit. its like a foriegn language; there are a few words an phrases i understand but not much else. the extent of my theory goes upto and not very far past how to use pentatonics, the only other scale i know is the harmonic minor just cos however you play it it sounds good, don't think there is a bad phrase you can make withit.
i reckon i get by quite well without theory, ill try to make up my own chords to get a different sound and i can hear if what im playing sounds bad and have enough creativity/patience to sit ad mess with my guitar playing untill i get somethin good. and besides that i have never thought out a tune or song they have come to me when playin so i dunno how much theory would benefit me anyway.

I recorded smells like teen spirt and solo over it one night since i had writer block. I thougt i came up with some rockin stuff and made a song out of it. I'm pretty much the only person who liked the song. I wonder if it was because i made an emotional connection between my song and nirvana that know one else could have made.

Originally Posted by: Axl_RoseI know virtually no theory.

I remember you posted the same thing on here a year ago. If you would have started learning it then you'd have a good handle on it by now.

I fail to see the point of this thread if you're just going to tell us that you don't want to learn. Just learn it, and your playing will be a lot better in the long run.

Being able to play by ear is a very useful gift. However, if you can hear what you want to play in advance, then be able to hit the notes perfectly every time, in any key over any chord, you're laughing.
Understanding music is like understanding a new language - you can learn a few phrases that'l get you by, but in order to hold a proper conversation, you need to know how to speak it.
Also, it's not as hard as it looks, and you may find it throws up some unexpected and intriguing new ideas.
Don't aim to be like Slash - be better.

Originally Posted by: noticingthemistake

As for you last question. It's not so much a note that is out of key that sticks out like a sore thumb. But a tone in the melody you want to play has a bad melodic quality. Usually referred to as bad phrasing. Also playing notes that may seem out of key is not a bad thing. Your right it sticks out like a sore thumb, but that can be good. Why? Because it immediately attracts the ear, which combats monotony. Notes out of key provoke interest. I'm not saying do this, because that is not the point. The point is having good melodic phrasing regardless of the notes. There are a ton of scales out there that have notes out of key, yet they sound good.

Yea your right, look at most of Marty Friedman's solos. They are very awkward not only with the exoitc scales, but with the random bendded notes. At first it sounds like crap, but then it grown on you and you start to love it.

I've written a few melodies with an out of key note occasionally. They sounded cool. You've got to love dischord.

The most common notes that are out of key occur because of a few key points.

*The leading tone, alot of minor scales (or modes) don't have a leading tone. So the seventh of the scale is often sharp, when it resolves to the root note.

* At a passing tone. example would be going A to A# to B. Sometimes called connect tones.

* When you use neighboring tones, usually the lower (hardly ever the upper N.T). Example is in A major, you may get D to C# to D.

* The use of suspensions when they don't occur naturally. Take a suspension 4th, which is the note a perfect fourth above the root. Say the root of the chord is F and you in the key of C major. B occurs naturally but it's not a perfect forth, so B is sometimes flattened. (Bb)

* Borrowing from modes. Say the song is in the key of C major, you could use a modal scale for the melody. C lydian for example. There is only one altered tone F to F#. This effect is to temporary change the key, but since they are so closely related. The next note you would play would exist in the originally key.

* The use of the diminished 7th chord right before a modulation. In C major the dim7 is Bdim7 (B D F Ab). Ab is the altered tone.

There are many others, usually from the use of altered or chromatic harmony. Then there are just ones that are way out there.