Help with Big Band!

OK here goes. My rock days are behind me (this is a bit strange.... since I'm 14 years old), and have decided to focus on 3 main areas of playing: Jazz, flamenco/classical and bluegrass... Of course that really doesn't have anything to do with this discussion, but anyway, let us move on....

So I want to play jazz right? Well, I play the tenor sax in band (I'm just leaving middle school this year) and I'm pretty decent at that, I've played it for longer than I've played guitar. But I like to play the guitar more, and I'm equally/more talented at that than the sax. Our town's High School jazz band is losing a legend on the tenor this year.... and I mean this kid will go places, he is amazing. I also could never live up to the way he plays, though I would like to. So when the jazz band auditions came around this year (We do them a before summer vacation starts, so next year the band will be all set), I went for guitar, cuz I like it more, I don't actually own a sax, I use the school's, and I knew that I would be the only guitar player, but there were two other kids already in the high school who were auditioning for the one open spot with the sax.

I didn't try at all at the audition, but luckily I got in (I was the only guitarist there, as I said), and thought it was the greatest thing ever.

No problem yet right? Well, let me expand. I couldn't exactly entirely keep up with the band, but I know that if I worked on all my comping then it will be easier (and this is a band that competes, last time they won first, plus the kid that's leaving won best solo), and I should be able to do nicely in the rhythm section. The only thing is, I want to be able to shine. I know how to solo in jazz, and I often play along with Charlie Parker, Charlie Christian and Wes Montgomerey.

What haunts me is tone. The guitar can get a nice bell-like clean tone out of it, but not much else without distortion. I do not want to use distortion. It puts out a thin, weak tone, which sounds great with chords, but after a sax or trumpet takes a solo, or even a piano, and the director says, now you Clayton, I can play stuff but it just doesn't sound right. The juice isn't there. There is no big tone. It aggravates me, and I just don't feel right soloing on my electric.

My gear consists of this:
A Danelectro Innuendo solidbody
An Epiphone Les Paul solid body
An Ovation celebrity edition (my prized guitar, so far)
A yamaha classical

I get more out of my Ovation than playing my semi-cheap Les Paul clean. But I don't know how this will work in a big band setting.

So my question begins as, How should I go about this. I want to play my full potential, but it just doesn't sound right over the band. Should I invest in a hollow body jazz-electric guitar, or should I try to use the acoustic?

Or, should I just not solo all together on the guitar, and ask the band director if I can play guitar in rhythm, then switch to tenor on stage if I want or need to solo?

Any other advice in this category? I'd really appreciate it.... Oh, I couldn't really figure out which forum this should go into so I used Open.

Thanx a lot, you guys have never left me hanging before, please don't start now!

-Tha Ace

From a performance perspective, I don't think the audience would get it if you switched from guitar to sax midway through a piece in order to solo.

The acoustic might actually sound nice in a big-band situation, and I would think it would be a novel if not unique idea.

dunno if your band will use a pa (a assume it will set mics up around to pick up the instruments) if so try playin your acoustic (im assumin its an electro acoustic) and try sendin it straight through the pa. iv known jazz guitarists do this and its sounds great, although he was usin an amazing jazz acoustic. oh an when you feed it through the pa roll back the treble and middle an try an get a very warm deep sound. if its not an electro acoustic, i always find a get a nice jazz tone if i again roll back the treble and middle on my amp an have the bass up high, i use an LP an it always does the job. it seems that you just need to thicken your tone, only play the solo on your LP using the rhythm selector an if it still sounds a bit thin roll back the tone pot a touch.

i dont think there's a chance that a distorted sound could ever sound good in that sitaution unless it was very subtle, ie only really distorting when you really attack the strings. couldn't comment on the use of your danelectro as i aint ever really played one and dont no what the sound is like.

but yeah all you need to do is go for the opposite of what you would do in a rock situation where you would increase the treble as you need to cut through a band. when your playin jazz it wont need to cut through in the same way, as long as you get good presence it will come through.

Are you willing to make some gear purchases? Like a clean boost pedal maybe? Or a better amp for your LP? Even just an EQ pedal would improve the tone greatly.

Thanx a lot guys.

Thanx a lot guys.

Actually I could pull off a Sax-guitar switch mid-song....

There's this one kid who used to play trombone..... then while some sax or trumpet was playing a solo, he would get up and walk over to the guitar, turn on the amp.... and wait for his turn.... strange but effective.


I am seriously considering the acoustic, it is an acoustic-electric, and the EQ stuff has helped me.

Right now I can't even stand playing the LP, it might be because its a low end one (I think studio or 150, it only cost $300), but I don't like its tone.

I am willing to purchase gear. In fact, I want to get a job this summer, sell my Danelectro and LP (possibly on the LP), and get a used or new hollowbody.


In the meantime though, tell me more about this clean boost, and some EQ ideas.


Keep the ideas coming, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I meant from an audience perspective that it would seem weird to switch instruments mid-song, not that it wasn't possible (heck, some people even play two instruments at the same time in a song).

The only clean boost I know of is the Fulltone Fat-Boost ($179 USD):


I have read a lot about making your own clean boost, but this is the only commercially available one I've found so far.

Maybe your LP just needs a new pickup? What kind of amp are you using? It sounds to me to be an amp problem if you're getting thin tone from an LP... the whole concept of an LP is thick tone. Maybe you have a phase problem? How old is the guitar?

Let us know, so we can help!

The guitar is brand new.... but it isn't like your basic high grade LP, I got it at guitar center for 300, then saw it online for 250....

The pickups are pretty crappy though, and I haven't got around to changing them, are pretty crappy though, and I haven't got around to changing them, nor do i know much about pickups. Plus the action on the low strings suck, its so goddamn low that I can't even play the E or A string without a terrible buzz... up to like the 12th fret!

The amp is a Crate... but that's for practice, the school has a nice fender amp (i forget the model right now.... once again I don't go to the High school yet).

Any way I'm still basically undecided.... I just know that the way the LP is now, isn't what I want.


Anybody know stuff about hollowbodies?

yes, now is an amazing time to get a cheap and very cheerful hollow body. they are coming back in fashion as you might say. if you can get hold of a copy of guitar magazine, july edition, this year in england so dunno if you'll be able to get it, but it has a massive section on hollow bodies.
for £610 you can get a Epiphone Wildkat, which has the best review out of the guitars in between £329 and £610 (6 reviews in there) but if you got more money to burn you could get Gibson ES 333 (basically a stripped down version of the 335) for £1555. but thats pretty damn expensive.

the Epi Wildkat has P90 pickups so the tone is going to be nice, in the review it says:

"we could hardly tear ourselves away from the rhythm mode for muted, acoustic-stlye damping, sweet highs and twangy, surfy bass; a setting so warm you could huddle around it at festivals"

and to top it off it is also a very nice lookin guitar.

I live in th U.S.,

So a pound or whatever your currency is, is around the same as a dollar?


I'll check it out over here in the states. Thanx.

no its not at the moment a dollar will get you about 60 pence (100 pence in a pound) just type in currency converter in google or what ever search thing and it'll give you the options. however, it is most likely that the guitar would be somethin similar to 600 in dollars but im not sure. just go on epiphones website to check it out as just because its a poor exchange ratefor you (its amazin for me im orderin hella lota stuff from the US) it may not affect the worth of a dollar in america. i.e you could buy what would be a cd in england for 13 pounds and in america you could buy the cd for $13 so the worth of a pound and a dollar in each relative country is worth the same. i dunno if im explainin this very well but any way. i think it is as lookin at cd's from america they are about 15 dollars or somethin an thats what you pay over here but in pounds, but if i get them from america it nearly halfs the cost, if only it werent for those damned shipping costs and import tax.

hmmm a lot of rambiling went on there but heres the website for the epi wildkat: http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=2&CollectionID=1 dunno if that'll come up as a link but any how, on the picture of it click on the bottom right in the white area and it gives you a review of it. but no damned prices, how very annoying!

It's around $500 here.

So let me ask about hollow guitars, and their advantages...

Semi-Hollow vs. Hollow? Which do you guys prefer? What do you think would be more suited towards my needs? I realize that I should go try some out.... but my Dad won't take me out to any stores till I got the cash to buy anything.

Once again thanx guys.... I'll look into the clean boost. I think I'm getting a better idea of what I want, and that if I don't strive for perfection in tone (which can never be achieved) then I can work and think more about the music.


One more thing..... What amps have nice full clean sounds?

For a strong, solid tone, you will need heavy strings. Epiphone LP's are usually fairly decent guitars, so if it doesn't sound good, it may not be set up properly. The string buzz you mention suggests that it needs some attention from a good tech. Have it set up properly witha set of D'Addario EJ21 strings (.012" - .052") and set your amp with the bass at about 4, the mid at 7, and the treble at 5. You may want to move the settings around a bit from there, but remember that too much low end will muddy your sound, and too much treble will sound harsh compared to the brass section.

Good luck, and enjoy! :)

Thanx guys, once again.

My Jr. High doesn't even have a jazz band, heck our normal band is crap! (The bass section is me and a baritone horn, if you can even call that a bass section).

I'm just gonna have to try some of this stuff myself. Next school year maybe I'll tell you guys what I've decided, and post some recordings.

For a decent jazz tone roll down on the treble and boost the mids and bass on both the amp and guitar. Make sure the pick-up selector is selected to the neck pick up only. Heavier strings and a thicker pick will also improve your tone.

Your gear [U]sucks,[/U] here's what you can do-

Jazz Guitar is split into two seperate groups; The thick (Newer Age, Fusion) and the Thin (Django Reinhardt, acoustic gypsy Jazz). Tube Amps work well for those who like a beefy sound on their jazz guitar, and Solid State Amps work well with people who don't want colorization from their amp. You have considerably more control on a solid state amp then a tube amp as far as tonality goes especially those that crank up easy (like my Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb). Personally, "That-Jazz Sound" is very cliche on the guitar, so much that it ceases to be original, and so I look for the thinner, Django-Sound.

Distortion is great for people who need to hide their inhibitions, their weak points on the guitar, because it effectively takes a portion of your nuanced-playing out of the equation, smoothing the edges, if you will (It's also a poor substitute for intensity) Now you have to ask yourself- "Do I want to play with distortion?", and if the answer is yes, then chances are you will like running a Tube Screamer-> Tube Amp. I would recommend the Ibanez TS-9 and the Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb, if that's your kind of thing. More up on the price chart is the Mesa Boogie Mark IV, but unless you have $1500 to spend on an amp, that's out of the question. The Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb (same amp I have) is a very good tube amp; the first time i played it, I spent four hours messing with the reverb alone. Just a killer sound, well worth the $800.
As PonyOne said, the Roland JC-120 is a killer amp too, for about the same price as the '65 Deluxe Reverb. Hope that helped.

~Incidents