12-bar blues - chord types


jleraan
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jleraan
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02/15/2004 4:47 pm
I know this formula for 12-bar blues:

I - IV - I - I
IV - IV - I - I
V - IV - I - V

Now, let's say I work in the key of A.

Notes: A B C# D E F# G# if I'm not wrong.

Which means we're gonna use the A (I/root), the D (the IV) and the E (V).

Well, how do I know which chord type I'd better use? I.e all major chords, all 7th chords (I know they provide a very bluesy sound, but wait, should they be major or minor seventh's?) or should I use a combination of all chords?

Is there a rule or two which can help me on this?


# 1
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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02/15/2004 5:05 pm
Dominant 7 chords are the blues chords. In blues you will often see just a series of dominant chords. G7 C7 D7..etc. Sometimes they are altered as well, a common dominant alteration is the dominant 7th sharp 9 chord (G7#9). The blues sound is generated by harmonic minor 2nds. WHich is playing two tones a half step away. In a chord, this is the same, the b3 over the natural 3rd (G7#9). The b5 over a natural 5th (G7b5). This doesn't occur with the root as much though. The dominant seven flat nine chord is not as common as the others in blues. If you use them, be careful and make sure it's the texture you want.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 2
jleraan
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jleraan
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02/15/2004 5:23 pm
Dominant 7th chords. Is it dominant both if it's major or minor? Strange question I know. And as for the 12-bar blues, I could use all 7th chords then? For all the chords? And I still didn't understand if they could all be major or all be minor?

- I'll try to give an example

I - IV - I - I
IV - IV - I - I
V - IV - I - V

A - D - A - A
D - D - A - A
E - D - A - E

Look at this. The 12-bar blues in the key of A. But could I use it like this, using all major chords?

The same if I used 7th chords, should they all then be major 7th chords? Minor 7th chords?

[Edited by jleraan on 02-15-2004 at 11:44 AM]
# 3
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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02/15/2004 6:24 pm
In both the major and minor scale, the 5th is almost always a major dominant chord. In the major key it happens naturally, in the minor scale it is taken from the harmonic minor scale. The only time it is minor is if the melody descends from the tonic to the 5th. In the rules of the melodic minor scale; ascending its #6 and #7, descending it is natural again. The minor dominant chord is rare because the #7 moves to the tonic in the progression V-i. The #7 is the 3rd of the dominant chord, and it is major so the chord would make sense if it was a major chord to. Sometimes the melody descends when the 7th is natural again, changing the dominant chord to a minor.

When using them in context. Blues is done by using major chords, and imposing a minor scale on top. Producing the Blues minor and blues major scale. You can have minor chords, I'm not saying they are not used. Just find a chord progression that sounds bluesy in your own mind and then play a melody over it. Like I said it the other thread, theory can't make great music for you, that's up to you and what you want to hear.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 4
bitterblues01
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bitterblues01
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02/15/2004 6:51 pm
I just play it like major major 7 back to major
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
# 5
jleraan
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jleraan
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02/15/2004 7:29 pm
Okay, thanks a lot. I'll experiement with it!

Anyway, which blues artists could I listen to for good 12-bar blues examples?
# 6
Dr_simon
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Dr_simon
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02/16/2004 2:31 am
Check out:

http://www.trinkit.net/Songs/HandsOff.mp3
or
http://www.trinkit.net/Songs/Diligence.mp3

It is a bit rough around the edges but it is 12 bar !

[Edited by Dr_simon on 02-15-2004 at 09:12 PM]
My instructors page and www.studiotrax.net for all things recording.
my toons Brought to you by Dr BadGAS
# 7
bitterblues01
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bitterblues01
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02/16/2004 2:49 am
http://www.8ung.at/bluesrock is a good side for blues. I learnt a lot of blues things there. One of my favorite Blues Site.
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
# 8
chris mood
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chris mood
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02/16/2004 5:44 am
It sounds to me like your confused on the term "Dominant".
Dominant is neither major or minor, but a sound quality all of its' own. There are 5 sound qualities we use to describe everything in music; Major, Minor, Dominant, Augmented, and Diminished. So we could have.......
Cmaj7, Cmin7, C7, Caug, Cdim7
Here's the difference
Cmaj7...CEGB
Cmin7....CEbGBb
C7 (dominant)..CEGBb
Caug..CEG#
Cdim7..CEbGbA

Dominant chords are the primary chords used for blues...although you will find the other chord qualities used in other forms of blues. There is like 8 progressions that all of Blues music is based off of.
# 9
bitterblues01
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bitterblues01
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02/16/2004 6:41 am
Well, I am a big Blues player, and I say knowing all the theory to playing blues is fine and dandy, but it all comes down to having the feel for it. You feel pain and suffering let it out with those bends :)
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
# 10
jleraan
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jleraan
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02/16/2004 9:52 pm
Originally posted by chris mood
It sounds to me like your confused on the term "Dominant".
Dominant is neither major or minor, but a sound quality all of its' own. There are 5 sound qualities we use to describe everything in music; Major, Minor, Dominant, Augmented, and Diminished. So we could have.......
Cmaj7, Cmin7, C7, Caug, Cdim7
Here's the difference
Cmaj7...CEGB
Cmin7....CEbGBb
C7 (dominant)..CEGBb
Caug..CEG#
Cdim7..CEbGbA

Dominant chords are the primary chords used for blues...although you will find the other chord qualities used in other forms of blues. There is like 8 progressions that all of Blues music is based off of.


Thanks. I think I get it. But then again, the C7 (dominant) would - if I'm not mistaken - have a major sound, as there is a major third between the root and the third (C -> E)
# 11
jleraan
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jleraan
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02/16/2004 9:55 pm
Originally posted by bitterblues01
Well, I am a big Blues player, and I say knowing all the theory to playing blues is fine and dandy, but it all comes down to having the feel for it. You feel pain and suffering let it out with those bends :)


Yes, I think actually I'm scoring quite good on feel, but I need a little more knowledge on typical blues chords and licks. I improvise a lot, but that's just 'what I think of as blues..'

You know, don't you just love those heavy vibratos, screamy bends and crunchy, rhythmic double stops. And a unison bend here and there to connect it all toegether.
# 12
bitterblues01
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bitterblues01
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02/18/2004 1:36 pm
mhm indeed.
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do, crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see
# 13
jleraan
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jleraan
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02/18/2004 4:52 pm
Okay, I've read a little about blues today. After finishing the reading, I tried to write an outline for a simple blues song.

Read on, this is how I thought:

Progression to be used: 1-4-5
Key: A

As the chord progression is 1-4-5, the chords will be A-E-D. However, I convert them to 7th chords, and this is how I converted them:

(ie. the A7 chord.) I started off finding out the notes of the A major chord (formula: 1-3-5), and the results were:
A-C#-E. Then I added the 7th from the A major scale, the G#, but I flatted it (I'm not quite sure why I did, but it both sounds bluesier lowering it, and I -think- the note fits the A blues scale when I lower it, PS. not sure on this!) and ended on the G note. This gave me the A7 chord: A-C#-E-G. Then I used this method for the two other chords as well, but I got the notes from the corresponding major scales of course (didn't use the A major scale to get the notes of D major, for instance).

Allright, so the 1-4-5 progression is ready: A7-D7-E7. Then I thought: "The blues scale should be a nice choice for soloing, I think"
Then I found the formula for the blues scale:
1 b3 4 b5 5 b7
If we connect that with the A major scale, we get these notes: A C D D# E G.

Now, look at the notes of the three backing chords:
(If I got it right)
A7 = A-C#-E-G

D7 = D-F#-A-C

E7 = E-G#-B-D

Now, I reacted on the fact that EACH chord has got one note that isn't in the A minor blues scale. The A7 got the C#, the D7 got F# and the E got the G#. Is is supposed to be this way?

If not, then I have a few ideas, at least, what we could do.

A) Could it be that we should rather use the A major blues scale for soloing?

B) Do something with the backing chords to match them with the notes in the blues scale

C) We should do nothing, because it will work quite good the way we've got it already?

A few comments on this, please, and I'll be happy!
# 14
chris mood
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chris mood
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02/18/2004 5:03 pm
Yeah! You got it.
The Blues scale works becuase it implies a minor tonality over top a major (dominant) progression.

There's also a Major blues scale.
A: A B C C# E F# A
This will give you brighter sound, not as "down -n- dirty" as the minor blues scale. B.B. King primarily uses this scale. The 9th (B) and the 6th (F#) are B.B.'s 2 favorite notes to lay one.

When you become comfortable w/these 2 scales then you can over lap them, borrowing notes from each scale to create some very colorfull lines...that's when the real fun begins!
# 15
jleraan
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jleraan
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02/18/2004 8:54 pm
Thanks a lot. That's pretty much what I needed to hear. I'll stick with the minor blues scale for this progression then.

Oh, I see it now. You know, first I was afraid of using the blues MINOR scale over this progression, because the E7 chord has got the G# note, while in the scale, it's G. But now, also the G note is included in one of the other chords, so I guess it'll sound fine anyway.
# 16

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