Another lead question


MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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01/26/2004 2:56 am
Whenever lead is being played the lead guitarest is hitting several notes out of all the notes that the guitarest is hitting on lead how do you know wich note he is hitting to play rythm with, like if he is hitting A A# and C really fast how would you know wether to play rythm with A or A# or C??? Also when the rythm guitar player is playing bar chords fast where you cant get a lead going with one rythm note, how do you know what rhythm chord the guitar player is playing to play the lead to, For example listen to kirk hammet's lead on the song "Master Of Puppets" James hetfield is playing rythm wich is changes chords fast and kirk hammet is playing lead to it, i was wondering how you would know what note of lead to play to that fast rythm playing?

Sorry about all the questions everyone, but i have no one i know that knows any of the questions i want to know so i am asking them all here, thanks for the answers!
Mike ;)
# 1
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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01/26/2004 3:50 am
On master of Puppets, Hetfield is just playing a riff in E minor. The entire solo is in E minor as well. So basically if you see the rhythm player playing a riff in E minor, then you know to solo using the E minor scale, melodic minor actually. Knowing the key of what someone else is playing in is easy if your practice your scales and know them on the fretboard. Knowing basic theory will help out too. Picking the right notes depends on what sounds good to you, but if a rhythm is in E minor, then you want to pay special attention to the notes in that scale when you solo.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 2
concrete chaos
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concrete chaos
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01/26/2004 11:53 am
well A minor and c major are relative scales so basicaly just do what sounds good.

U can play in the same key i guess, or u can improvise or use notes which are discordant its ll in relation to what style u play and what sound u want to produce.
'i dont have low self esteem, it's a mistake. I have low esteem for everyone else' - Daria
# 3
MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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01/26/2004 3:03 pm
I C but how would you know if the riffs are being played in e minor or major? I really dont know the difference in them.
Mike ;)
# 4
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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01/26/2004 4:38 pm
Originally posted by concrete chaos
U can play in the same key i guess, or u can improvise or use notes which are discordant its ll in relation to what style u play and what sound u want to produce.


If I'm reading you write, you may be intrepting something for what it is not. It's not a good idea to play an E minor scale over a D minor harmony. What is actually going on when you see the first note in a solo is a second above the root of the harmonic chord is a sus2. Suspensions are exceptions to playing one of the three notes of a triad. The other being a suspension 4th, which in the second solo on Master of Puppets. Kirk plays an A over james' E, a suspension 4th that resolves to E as all suspensions do (resolve to one of the notes in a triad).

As for knowing what key someone is playing in, you have to learn your scales. Once you do, you'll be able to quickly see what scale a riff is in by it's pattern or that the notes being played all exist in one particular scale. Usually the first note played is the root of a scale, sometimes it's the fifth. Stick around the site for awhile you'll learn. The key lies in knowing your scales and key harmony.

It's sort of like this, saying the riff starts by palm muting an open E (as most metal riffs do). You can pretty much guess that the root is E. Now if the G is played in the riff, a good guess is it's in the key of E minor. If it's a G# instead, the key is E major. Two notes is usually not enough, so say the notes played in the riff are E, G, and F#, you know now it's definitely E minor cause those are the first three notes of the e minor scale. If F is played instead of F#, it's E phyrgian. E phyrgian is very popular with metallica. Just try to think of all the metallica riffs that start with E, and have F and G in them.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 01-26-2004 at 10:44 AM]
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 5
The Ace
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The Ace
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01/26/2004 10:32 pm
Get a good ear (I think their selling them on ebay these days... no jk jk you've gotta earn it) and play what sounds good to you.... scales are suggested guidelines, just like roads or underage drinking. (oh and that I'm really jk - kids don't drink)
There are only two important things in life - There's music and theres girls, not necessarily in that order....
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# 6
MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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01/27/2004 12:10 am
OK ic, im not sure but did anyone answer the question i had that if you you make up a lead that soudns good and you want bass or rythm behind it, how will the bass player or rythm guitar player know what rhythm chord to play too?, And say the lead isnt any scale it just sounds well.
Mike ;)
# 7
The Ace
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The Ace
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01/27/2004 1:27 am
I ran into this problem awhile back.... I had this cool song I wrote.... and then a solo just popped into my head. I had it all prepared.... then realized I had no rhythm background! Trying to figure out something for it was frustrating, I almost just decided to make it a pure guitar solo, no backing. A good trick is to play back the solo.... then fool around with chords and such. Power chords can be great too, as they are neither major or minor, it just depends the context you use them in.
There are only two important things in life - There's music and theres girls, not necessarily in that order....
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# 8
I Suffer
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I Suffer
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01/27/2004 2:20 am
Excuse me for maybe getting your questions all wrong, but you horribly confused me, lol. Its the ADD i betcha! Long questions through me off.

Are you asking how do you know where to play the solo in a song? If thats the case you have to know what key the song is in, and go to the correct fret/scale.

I wont say anymore cause im not sure if thats what your asking.
# 9
Axl_Rose
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Axl_Rose
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01/27/2004 2:48 am
Originally posted by MadGuitarest
if you you make up a lead that soudns good and you want bass or rythm behind it, how will the bass player or rythm guitar player know what rhythm chord to play too?


You can line up notes in the lead lick youve invented buy playing chords in time with those notes. Heres an example, lynyrd Skynyrd- Simple Man. The rythmn goes C, G, then A. Those stars in the tab represent when those three chords are strummed... C.. then G... then A :)

e|-------*----------*-------------*-----------------------|
B|-------*----------*-------------*-----------------------|
G|-------*----------*-------------*-----------------------|
D|-------*----------*-------------*-----------------------|
A|-0-2-3---5/-3----------5/-3-0-------------0-0-----|
E|-------------------3-----------------0-3-0-3----------|

You see how the C, G and A line up? The lead notes below the star lines go C then G then A!

Also about your question on a cool sounding lead part thats not a scale. Any lead part you write is based on a scale, theres always gona be sum scale that if fits into or at least closer fits into.

Finally, writing a lead part for a fast riff, I personally find harder. The bed of most solos involves just strumming chords, you mite have the rythmn guitarist playing- D D D D D D D D - G G G G G G G G - C C C C C C. Which is simple but easy to write a solo over as it already suggests the notes D, G and C are gona fit in nice.

Generally you wont hear guitar solos over busy riffs, because the solo should be highlighted. Your typical Guns n Roses song might have fast riff but the rythmn changes for the solos to emphasis the solo,so you might have a fast riff then just two slow chords behind the solo.

If you do have a fast riff and want to play a solo over it then you have to decide what key its in.. overall what does it sound like? If the riff starts and ends on the note E then its probably in E major or minor! You have to decide.

The main trick is learn the rythmn and lead for a song, then youl realise the connection between single notes and chords.

[Edited by Axl_Rose on 01-26-2004 at 09:07 PM]
# 10
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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01/27/2004 5:16 am
Hmmm... So you want to know what notes to play harmonically to a solo that you say doesn't fit in any key, at least for a long period of time? I could answer that for you, but I'm guessing your understanding of theory is small. So you probably wouldn't understand a thing I would say since it would take alot of theory to explain. To be able to give you a answer I must ask: can you write the solo out in actually music via. powertab?? do you understand what modulation is?? and how time signatures work??

Although I honestly believe if you can write a coherent solo without using scales, you should be able to think up a harmony. Truth is, there are not perfect notes. In fact, there are a group of notes/chords that can work over a certian section of a melody. It just depends on what sounds cool.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 11
MadGuitarest
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MadGuitarest
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01/30/2004 4:21 am
Thanks alot for the answers but as one of you said i really dont know much about theory,for anyone that was confused i was asking the question that if you thought of lead and you are playing like C Csharp D Real fast over and over im pretty sure that that lead would have the rythm of C because the lead starts off with C. I was wondering how you know what rythm to play to the lead if the lead player is hitting multiple strings fast that you dont know wich rythm chord you should play it to. yeah i think i am just gonna play what sounds good because it seems to work for alot of people.
Mike ;)
# 12
noticingthemistake
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noticingthemistake
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01/30/2004 5:16 am
Ok. A harmony over C C# D could be harmonized with G. Again it goes back to the scales, C C# D is a common blues progression in G minor. The first clue about blues is the 3 consecutive semi-tones ascending or desecnding. Look up the blues minor scale and you'll see: 1, 3, 4, b5, 5, 7. C C# D is 4 b5 5 in G blues minor. Could even be harmonized with A major, making a bluesy major sound, b3, 3, 4 is a common blues major progression. It could also be harmonized with D, C C# D is a common progression over a D chord in Bebop Jazz. As for C, could be but would be very dissonant. Root, augmented 1st, and 2nd is not a pleasant sequence. It's not always the first note in the solo thats the harmony, alot of the times the first note of the solo is a note other than the root of the chord in harmony. Roughly any note will work, each producing a different effect. Using G would give you a bluesy sound, A would give you a more countrish sound since blues major is favorite scale with country players. While using D will give you a more jazzy sound.

As for rhythm, that's your call but it should be simplier than the lead your putting over it.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 01-29-2004 at 11:20 PM]
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 13

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