Originally posted by noticingthemistake
There is a difference.

it does not make a difference to those who died and it wond change the fact that hitler would never have come to power with a different economy system.

Like you said the problem is in the materialistic world we live in. That can't change, it's human nature.

wrong - there was a time in europe - in the medievial ages - where it already worked:

the gothic ages where more advanced than our actual society.
"in the medieval ages, the people had more spare time than today. an average of 115 days off a year." (Southgerman Newspaper, 6.4.1999)

the hightime of the "golden medieval age" (1150 to 1450) was the most advanced period in history. at that time, social differences where as little as never before and never after again. those who had much gained it through hard work, and not by waiting for the money to multiply itself trough the use of interest without working for it. the minimum number of holidays a year was 90 and sometimes up to 150 (!). soon monday was a fix day off too so people had to work only 4 days a week. archbishop Antonin von Florenz said that it was quite normal that in order to maintain a good living standard, it was completely sufficient to work only 4 days a week - only to those who were after more money had to work more. the daily worktime in freiburg´s coalmine was only 6 hours per day (!!!). the expliotation of the peasons was inexistant because for those who wanted, there was enough work in the ever growing cities as craftsman for example. the regular income was that high, that even the poorest day labourers could afford 5-6 kg of the most expensive meat PER DAY. In Meissen every bricklayer-apprentice had to get 5 Groschen a week extra cash for bathing! that was in a time when a "scheffel" grain did cost 5-6 groschen. and a "scheffel" was almost 104 LITERS. compared to our modern time, where free-time is rare and the preasue at work is ever increasing, this time was like PARADISE.

the time between 1150 and 1450 was a time of NO crisis in europe. around 1150 archbishop Wichmann startet to issue money (coins) that was exchanged two times a year. the objective was to gather the taxes on a regular and easy basis. 12 old "pfennig" where exchanged by 9 new "pfennig" - the difference was the tax. in order to easily and quickly melt the coins and make new money out of them, they where only made of thin metal and they had a picture on only one side. hence the name "Brakteaten" (bractes = thin tin). very quickly the method spread throughout the land and the gathering of huge amounts of money became unattractive. to avoid the next exchange, the money was given to others as interest-free loans, because only the owner had to pay the tax. thus money was a mere exchange-good - nothing more. thats what true sense of money should be. how immense that economic uplift had been can be seen by the development of german cities at that time. around 1300 there where lots of new cities and a tremendous ammount of economic development, that has never been acceived again in history up to now. this was the time where the big cathedrals were built all over europe. financed by VOLUNTEER DONATIONS of NORMAL citicens. this displays how confident the people must have been in those days, because who would donate for a century-project when he cannot be sure to survive the next day?
the situation changed as greedy salesmen started to introduce (step by step) a currency that has not been exchanged twice a year anymore, but only once every 4 years. this development was driven by the Fuggers. after the introduction of heavy, both-side printed coins between 1480 and 1560 the fuggers where able to make it to the mighthiest clan of those times. money was only given away at HIGH interest rates. for example an investment of 900 gulden got you 30.000 gulden of interest after 6 years. within just a few years the allocation of property moved to the hands of just a few rich ones. alot of the big cathedrals could not be completed anymore- they remained unfinished skeletons for 300 years and more untill they have finally been finished in the last century. the situation for normal people changed so drastically, that it lead to big peasant-wars at the beginning of the 16th century. the guilds where not free for anoyne to join anymore, thus blocking the way to self-employment for most people. new developments where surpressed. for example the invention of the mechanic loom was forbidden and the inventor killed. the peeps could not explain the sudden change to the bad side and therefore started with the inquisitons and blamed it on witches. the dark medieval ages had begun and basically didnt end till today.


as long as we dont see clearly and realize the failure in the system, we will be trapped in the wheel of boom, crash, crisis and war. and the number of victims increases. 70.000 in the war of 1870, 6 million in WW1 and 60 million in WW2 - be prepared for WW3! will be alot of fun.

and to say "its our faith - we just are that way" is absolutely dumb. that way we could just trow it all away and drop the bomb.

[Edited by Azrael on 11-26-2003 at 05:31 PM]