"Thou shall not" gone!

I think that we have the same overall opinion, with a different outlook on the future (yours positive, mine negative). Yeah, there are some things in Political Correctness that should remain in government, but it's being taken way too far.

Can't remember if i posted this or not;

A monument is being erected, representing the 3 firefighters that raised the flag at 9/11; In real life, the three firefighters were white. The monument has one black, and one hispanic, and one white firefighter.

That is where I think it's gone too far. When historically, it's inaccurate, thats when it draws the line. That, and considering the fact that had they been 3 black men, if you would have replaced any of them, it would have been racist. I believe that racism works both ways.

Now as far as politics go, I believe that our nation can get back on the right track, in time, but it will take more than petty wars and unstable economies.

I just read that Bush has the worst unemployment record since Hoover in the Great Depression. Statistical facts prove it; 9/11 is not an excuse. Clinton had Somalia, Kosovo, Iraq (1998), among others to deal with, yet he came up with 22 million jobs during his 8 year tenure (11 million per term, avg.). Bush is the first president since Hoover to actually lose overall jobs; 3 million jobs since Bush took office.

Doesn't help that his 3 tax cuts he's given since his inauguration have averaged the top 1 percent of tax payers $99,000 in tax relief, and the bottom 60% only $350 bucks. Huh, sounds awful republican to me!

~Incidents

I agree with you on the racism issue. If it was 3 white guys, The monument should have 3 white guys. They shouldn't have to make sure that all walks of life are put on a monument so the people who made the thing don't get called racist. Next thing you'll see is they will make a new mount rushmore and put a hispanic, asian, african american, native american and maybe a white guy to make everyone happy.

I'm just sayin' I agree with you and i threw in some little rants of my own.

If that's how it happened let it be historically correct.

Perhaps the monument is not to the individuals who raised the flag but to those who died in such tragic circumstances and to the spirit of everyone pulling together as a nation (symbol of a flag and all that) to over come adversity.

Metaphor you see, clever!!!

Yeah, Simon, they said it was for those who died. What a crock of ****. The guys who raised the Flag at Iwo Jima weren't changed, and they still represented America.

Why is it that a black/asian guy has to be in there in order for everybody to be happy? ****, I'm not happy; but I guess that's not what America is for, is it?

Everyone bitches about minorities needing more and more; let me tell you, that is a crock of ****. If you're a minority, and don't get hired for a job, you can sue and easily take them for $100,000 bucks or so for not hiring you. If you get fired from a job as a minority, you can sue and make a killing on a settlement. It's plain out stupid, reverse racism. The Detriot Lions (NFL Football Team) got fined $500,000 for hiring Steve Mariucci right away, without interviewing minority coaches. What a ****ing story, huh? Mooch had job offers from all around the league, and is known as one of the best coaches in the NFL (turned around a -$26 Million cap problem in San Fran, into a Division Title Winning/Playoff Team. Was fired for not having a flashy offense, after taking 9ers to Division Championship game); If Detroit spent time interviewing ****ty minority coaches, Mooch would have gone with another team, 'nuff said. He was the last coach available that was decent, and the Lions can't make a choice without getting a fine, because the minorities need a chance. What a ****ing crock.

If a minority gets hired, does the white man cry and cry, and the NFL fine the team for not allowing White people to interview for the job? **** no.

Which brings me to Affirmative Action; The Democracts love it, and the republicans hate it. Personally, I hate it myself, but I also hate Republicans. Democrats are more towards my taste, but i hate them too. I think that most politicians have their nose up someone's asshole the majority of the time, filling their own pockets for the next campaign, gotta find a way to cover up that scandal!

Affirmative Action, to me, violates the constitution. Each person is no longer equal; The blacks now get a boost when it comes to education. Notice how no other minority gets a boost; The Asians don't get a boost, The Mexicans don't get a boost, The Irish don't, oh no. Just the Blacks. I'd say "African American", except the fact that 95% of them haven't been to Africa in their entire lives.

Colleges should be racially blind; Race should not be an issue. Minorities always say that we are profiling, that we are doing this and that, when you are the one wanting race on college applications!. For christ's sake, your own Martin Luther King said that one day, he wishes for there to be a racially blind society, where his kids are judged by the content of their own character, not by the color of their own skin. I guess that doesn't apply when it comes to freebies, does it?

And the whole "Forty Acres and a Mule" thing is bull****! Who were you a slave to, exactly, again? Huh? Oh, you were born a free person? Well, thats good to hear, I wonder who saved your ass? Oh really, my great-great grandfather? Hm, and who should be thanking who? My god! As the Eagles' song goes "Get Over It!".

~Incidents

This is bigoted rubbish.

If this was my forum this would just be deleted.

Grow up !

It's easy to say "Grow up!" after someone points out the flaws in American Society, huh doc?

I was hoping for a response, not a If i were moderator of this forum...... reply.

Don't get me wrong, there are many problems with white people as well; Just because I take my subjects one at a time doesn't mean they are my only thoughts.

~Incidents

What is not being pointed out is that atheism is in fact a form of religion.
Thus, the government is actually pushing a religion down the throats of school children, which is exactly what they are trying to not do.
And doesn’t America pride itself on the freedom of speech?
And doesn’t taking away all forms of religion in schools etc. Take away this freedom?

Judaism has been around for approximately 6000 years, 6000 YEARS, Christianity almost 2000 years, Islam 1700 years, Buddhism close to 2500 years.
And we want to stop people from performing the rituals and events that go along with these religions.
These religions are the reason that we live the way we do, think about it, if there was no God of some sort or punishment at the end of our lives and it really is survival of the fittest then why do we follow rules or laws?
All these rules and laws are based of laws that were set down in the Bible.

Religion is the biggest part of our history as the human race and we want to not allow it in schools.

Its all just stupid.

i live in montgomery and hear this rubbish every day.. i could care less if its there or not there..i never go to the building anyways..atleast the judge should have asked or got permission before he put the statue in..it can offend those who beleive in different things or those who dont beleive in god at all

Originally posted by b_hoves
What is not being pointed out is that atheism is in fact a form of religion.
Thus, the government is actually pushing a religion down the throats of school children, which is exactly what they are trying to not do.
And doesn’t America pride itself on the freedom of speech?
And doesn’t taking away all forms of religion in schools etc. Take away this freedom?

Judaism has been around for approximately 6000 years, 6000 YEARS, Christianity almost 2000 years, Islam 1700 years, Buddhism close to 2500 years.
And we want to stop people from performing the rituals and events that go along with these religions.
These religions are the reason that we live the way we do, think about it, if there was no God of some sort or punishment at the end of our lives and it really is survival of the fittest then why do we follow rules or laws?
All these rules and laws are based of laws that were set down in the Bible.

Religion is the biggest part of our history as the human race and we want to not allow it in schools.

Its all just stupid.

Hoves, I'm not gay, but I think I'm in love with you.

Originally posted by Incidents Happen
Yeah, Simon, they said it was for those who died. What a crock of ****. The guys who raised the Flag at Iwo Jima weren't changed, and they still represented America.

Why is it that a black/asian guy has to be in there in order for everybody to be happy? ****, I'm not happy; but I guess that's not what America is for, is it?

Everyone bitches about minorities needing more and more; let me tell you, that is a crock of ****. If you're a minority, and don't get hired for a job, you can sue and easily take them for $100,000 bucks or so for not hiring you. If you get fired from a job as a minority, you can sue and make a killing on a settlement. It's plain out stupid, reverse racism. The Detriot Lions (NFL Football Team) got fined $500,000 for hiring Steve Mariucci right away, without interviewing minority coaches. What a ****ing story, huh? Mooch had job offers from all around the league, and is known as one of the best coaches in the NFL (turned around a -$26 Million cap problem in San Fran, into a Division Title Winning/Playoff Team. Was fired for not having a flashy offense, after taking 9ers to Division Championship game); If Detroit spent time interviewing ****ty minority coaches, Mooch would have gone with another team, 'nuff said. He was the last coach available that was decent, and the Lions can't make a choice without getting a fine, because the minorities need a chance. What a ****ing crock.

If a minority gets hired, does the white man cry and cry, and the NFL fine the team for not allowing White people to interview for the job? **** no.

Which brings me to Affirmative Action; The Democracts love it, and the republicans hate it. Personally, I hate it myself, but I also hate Republicans. Democrats are more towards my taste, but i hate them too. I think that most politicians have their nose up someone's asshole the majority of the time, filling their own pockets for the next campaign, gotta find a way to cover up that scandal!

Affirmative Action, to me, violates the constitution. Each person is no longer equal; The blacks now get a boost when it comes to education. Notice how no other minority gets a boost; The Asians don't get a boost, The Mexicans don't get a boost, The Irish don't, oh no. Just the Blacks. I'd say "African American", except the fact that 95% of them haven't been to Africa in their entire lives.

Colleges should be racially blind; Race should not be an issue. Minorities always say that we are profiling, that we are doing this and that, when you are the one wanting race on college applications!. For christ's sake, your own Martin Luther King said that one day, he wishes for there to be a racially blind society, where his kids are judged by the content of their own character, not by the color of their own skin. I guess that doesn't apply when it comes to freebies, does it?

And the whole "Forty Acres and a Mule" thing is bull****! Who were you a slave to, exactly, again? Huh? Oh, you were born a free person? Well, thats good to hear, I wonder who saved your ass? Oh really, my great-great grandfather? Hm, and who should be thanking who? My god! As the Eagles' song goes "Get Over It!".

~Incidents

You're arguing against people who've seen more of this world first hand than you've even had a chance to. You might want to tone it down, listen and observe before you bring your opinion forth with such vigor.

I can drive about an hour north of here and arrive in a town that still has segregated schools and open Klan meetings. I can walk five minutes to a mostly black dorm on the ULL campus and find skinhead graffiti on a nearby transformer box. The city hasn't cleaned it up since I moved here over a year ago. Gilbert, a man in my department gets harassed by two police departments all the time, and he has no criminal record. In fact, one night while working his second job (a paper route), a man pulled a shotgun on him. When Gilbert called the police to report this, he was the one who given the riot act by the investigating officers. You guessed it, he's black.

I know a man who works in for a large defense firm who's openly racist and one of his primary duties is hiring people. Go to any magor US city and you will consistantly find the schools least able to produce successful adults (mostly due to underfunding) in minority districts.

If you think blacks have a better chance to succeed in this nation, you're NUTS.

So you've told me a few stories of how hard it is for black people in this nation; BIG DEAL. The Hispanics and Asians, and Arabs don't have it easy, either. If you are going to fund something like "Affirmative Action", you can't just help the blacks. That leaves the hispanics, Asians, and Arabs in the dust; "They've been treated worse than the other ones....", so what? How does it feel for a hispanic woman living in poverty to try to get into college, and get rejected, so that a black person can go to school? This hispanic person may have faced the same or worse hardships, but gets no benefits out of it.

~Incidents

I see both sides of the story.

I see a great deal where Incidents comes from. I am currently in college and I see and hear everyday from black students that get it all for free. They don't care if they're there for 7 or 8 years, it's all paid for. But me, I have to take out student loans and pay back my tuition at a later date. Not them, free ride all the way. Why? Think about it? If they denied the black students, or any minority for that matter, no matter what their level of education, the university would be considered racists. There would be someone to sue them over the fact that they don't allow minorities in, even if the grades aren't there to support it. Guess what? They would win. These are the same black kids that went through the same school system that I did. And I'm sure that there are plenty of dumb white kids that won't get in, just because they're dumb and white.

I am by no means racist, but I believe our society is sickening right now. There is plenty of reverse racism today. There are just as many poor white people as there are poor blacks.

Originally posted by Incidents Happen
So you've told me a few stories of how hard it is for black people in this nation; BIG DEAL. The Hispanics and Asians, and Arabs don't have it easy, either. If you are going to fund something like "Affirmative Action", you can't just help the blacks. That leaves the hispanics, Asians, and Arabs in the dust; "They've been treated worse than the other ones....", so what? How does it feel for a hispanic woman living in poverty to try to get into college, and get rejected, so that a black person can go to school? This hispanic person may have faced the same or worse hardships, but gets no benefits out of it.

~Incidents

You don't understand.

Here's how most colleges look at race issues:

"Diversity is good." They want all races represented on campus, but they also want to have good students. So a minority at the very bottom threshhold of acceptance might have a minor advantage over a white student at the very bottom threshhold of acceptance, but it's not huge, and most poeple dont' fit into that category.

My ex girlfriend is Asian. It was considered a positive thing on her college application. Same for her little brother. Same for Hispanics, Blacks, whatever.

The ugly truth of Affirmative Action is that unless minority communities (especially the black community - the one most repressed) can get good jobs, and good educations, they'll never get on their feet. There is obviously a lot more to it than this, but if you let those two slide, you're never getting anywhere. And sadly, it's still neccessary. 60 Minutes recently cought several NYC firms choosing a less qualified white candidate over a more qualified black candidate. It is truely sad that we live in a nation where the government has to make laws that say "Look, X percent of your workforce has to be Black" because if the law wasn't there, the situation WOULD get worse.

DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE

Originally posted by Pantallica1
I see both sides of the story.

I see a great deal where Incidents comes from. I am currently in college and I see and hear everyday from black students that get it all for free. They don't care if they're there for 7 or 8 years, it's all paid for. But me, I have to take out student loans and pay back my tuition at a later date. Not them, free ride all the way. Why? Think about it? If they denied the black students, or any minority for that matter, no matter what their level of education, the university would be considered racists. There would be someone to sue them over the fact that they don't allow minorities in, even if the grades aren't there to support it. Guess what? They would win. These are the same black kids that went through the same school system that I did. And I'm sure that there are plenty of dumb white kids that won't get in, just because they're dumb and white.

I am by no means racist, but I believe our society is sickening right now. There is plenty of reverse racism today. There are just as many poor white people as there are poor blacks.

There is no such thing as "reverse racism."

The average black family is SIGNIFICANTLY poorer than the average white family.

The average black student is also coming out of one of the worst school systems in the nation.

So what do you expect?

How do you figure that the average black student comes out of the worst school system in the nation?

Thats about the biggest generalization I have ever seen. You're assuming that just because they are black they go through a bad school system. Not hardly. The world today is geared towards helping the less fortunate. Well it was, until G.W. Just because there are a few bad school districts, that are prodominently black, doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of bad school districts for whites and other minorities.

None of that is taken into account.

Check this: http://nces.ed.gov/das/epubs/2002170/footnotes_es.asp

Paragraph 3.

The average white male's salary is $61,000. Black male? $53,000.

That's hardly SIGNIFICANTLY less.

(By the way if you're going to say about the women, its White Woman = $48,000, Black woman= $46,000)

Sure, there are poor black kids, but there are also poor white kids, and asian kids, and muslim kids, and arab kids. It's a part of life. I don't think that just because they are black, or white or asian or green or purple , they should get a free ride.

Let me guess, Rask, you think that we should give the blacks [u]$1 Trillion dollars[/u] in reparations? Why not give them 40 acres and a mule, while we're at it? After all, they suffered, right? Free college is awful tough when you pull a 1.8 GPA, and beat out a 3.000 GPA blue collar white kid who wants to learn.

Rask, not sure if you're aware of this, but our education system isn't different for each race. It's the same education system. No difference, whatsoever.

There is no excuse: Just because you're black doesn't mean you can **** around in High School for four years, and still get into college.


~Incidents

Originally posted by Pantallica1
How do you figure that the average black student comes out of the worst school system in the nation?

Thats about the biggest generalization I have ever seen. You're assuming that just because they are black they go through a bad school system. Not hardly.

Where are the highest concentrations of the worst schools?

Inner city school districts; almost always black districts.

The world today is geared towards helping the less fortunate. Well it was, until G.W. Just because there are a few bad school districts, that are prodominently black, doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of bad school districts for whites and other minorities.

Not nearly as many.

Check this: http://nces.ed.gov/das/epubs/2002170/footnotes_es.asp

Paragraph 3.

The average white male's salary is $61,000. Black male? $53,000.

That's hardly SIGNIFICANTLY less.

(By the way if you're going to say about the women, its White Woman = $48,000, Black woman= $46,000)

A). There's no mention (that I noticed) of how the statistics were calculated - this could change the results significantly.
B). Black kids are much more likely to have single parents which compounds financial problems.
C). Black families tend to be larger than white families.
D). $8,000 a year is a HUGE difference in income where I come from.

Sure, there are poor black kids, but there are also poor white kids, and asian kids, and muslim kids, and arab kids. It's a part of life. I don't think that just because they are black, or white or asian or green or purple , they should get a free ride.

I don't know how I'm going to pay all of my bills this month. I have to replace my van and I can't find a way to make payments on a new(er) vehicle. I can't afford for the van to break down again.

That said, I could be enrolled into a fairly decent college next semester with all kinds of financial aid - all I'd have to do is get off my ass and get some applications in.

If you're (by "you're" I don't neccessarily mean you) seriously worried about losing a job or a place at college because you're white and you think a minority is likely to get "your" slot because of their color, you're pretty much destined for a career at Walmart anyway. Really. Anybody that mediocre is going to waste their degree.

Originally posted by Incidents Happen
Let me guess, Rask, you think that we should give the blacks [u]$1 Trillion dollars[/u] in reparations?

No. Very poor assumption.

Why not give them 40 acres and a mule, while we're at it? After all, they suffered, right? Free college is awful tough when you pull a 1.8 GPA, and beat out a 3.000 GPA blue collar white kid who wants to learn.

A 1.8 GPA will never beat out a 3.0 GPA for a college education. The college WILL find a way for that 3.0 to attend. A 1.8 might however beat out a 2.0 if the 1.8 comes from an under-represented minority on campus. Or if they're a really good athelete.

Rask, not sure if you're aware of this, but our education system isn't different for each race. It's the same education system. No difference, whatsoever.

Yeah, right.

FACT: Most school districts are funded LOCALLY. That means if your district is poor, your schools are poor. If it's rich, your school is rich.

The worst schools in this nation have no computers, few text books, and fewer qualified teachers; mostly because the community can't afford them. That puts ALL of the students at a very severe disadvantage.

There is no excuse: Just because you're black doesn't mean you can **** around in High School for four years, and still get into college.

Just because a black student has a 1.8 GPA doesn't mean they screwed around in high school or are stupid.


As I said, this situation is far more complicated than just handing out jobs and college degrees. But if aggressive steps aren't taken to get minorities into good schools and into good jobs this situation will NEVER improve. And inspite of what you may want to believe about this nation, racism is still very blatant and pervasive all across it.

Bottom line:
How can you be an "equal" with a substandard education?

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Just because a black student has a 1.8 GPA doesn't mean they screwed around in high school or are stupid.

[/B]

That's the assumption for white kids.

Originally posted by Incidents Happen

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
Just because a black student has a 1.8 GPA doesn't mean they screwed around in high school or are stupid.

That's the assumption for white kids.[/B]

Unless you happened to be part of the one white family in an otherwise all black ghetto, that's probably the case.

A friend of my brother's was in just that situation before his family moved to Vermont. You have no idea how much catching up that kid had to do.