Improvisation

My guitar teacher showed me last lesson 5 scales in A minor or C-major(that´s almost the same, i think) and said with these scales or patterns, i can improvise all that is possible. And i think i got this, but i don´really know if it´s true. So i think: If i can do these 5 patterns in C major i can jam allong the whole fretboard. so if i want to jam in for example G major i have to put all these patterns so many tones up or down as necassary.

something to add: And now if i want to mix these A minor C minor and all the different keys, how should i do that? Then i could play just as well somehow over the fredboard because then no tone would be wrong(my teacher dindn´t add the so called "blue notes" to the patterns because he thought it would be too confusing at the moment)

Learn one scale at a time, throughout the entire fretboard. The whole "patterns" thing is bull****, it's just to help kids remember the scales. In a week or maybe two weeks, you should know the scale to the point where you can remember the notes in your sleep.

There is no point in "Knowing C Major in two patterns" or anything that limits the amount of the fretboard you use; if you aren't going to learn it all, there's no point in learning it, trust me on this one.
I have a friend who is not very good at guitar, but he knows "some positions of the scales", and let me tell you, after listening to hear him play for 5 minutes, you'd rather want to hear nails on a chalkboard. Nothing is more annoying than guitarists using the same patterns on the same octaves on the same positions again.

Me? I know all the western scales, modes, and about 30 eastern scales, by heart. I used to dream about the scales, and practice them constantly (5 hours a day) until each scale was engraved in my head. After you know all of that, then you have to go back to step one and take a look at what each note means, relative to each chord.

If you find a song that has both C-Minor and A-Minor in it, tell me because it most definitely is a rare find. I've seen a few tunes with it, but it's not something you see everyday.

~Incidents

So I´m now very confused. I trust in my teacher, and I know he´s very good, so why should he has in mind to teach me bull****? What is his intention to learn me these patterns?Isn´t it true that when i can play these pentatonic scales in g, d, ... i can improvise all? What´s the difference between patterns and scales. I think i need a big explantion what sence pattern and scales have, because when you learn them all, and they are obviosly very much, how do i mix them together and so on? I´m so depressed now, cause i don´t know what´s right and what´s wrong.

To answer your question incidents about a song written in both C minor and A minor. I can't think of a song right now that modulates like this but it is a common key change. It happens very natural too. Here's a way to go from A minor to C minor. In A minor the dominant 7 chord is G, and G is a fifth above C. In the C harmonic minor scale G is the dominant. So you just play a harmonic minor cadance going from G7 to C minor. So you can easily go Aminor - G7 - Cminor. To go from C minor to A minor, you can just play back in the circle of fiths. This is done by going clockwise from the key of C minor to A minor in the circle of fiths. The chord progression would be, Cm - Gm - Dm - Am.

Beginner-

Listen to your teacher he's got the right idea. Your goal although should be to know every note on the fretbaord that is in the key you what to improvise in. So if I said play the G major scale starting with the 15th fret on the low E string, you should know it all the way up and back down without thinking about it. Learn your fretboard, it will help.

Um, Im pretty sure it was a typo and he meant C major

Noticing-
Modulation is different though; He said it in the context of using the two chords in a revolving chord change, or that's how I perceived it.

Your teacher isn't giving you bull****, he's trying to help you learn the fretboard. What I'm saying is, don't learn the board in 'patterns'. Learn the board in notes! You will not know what the hell you are playing if you simply play off of patterns. Too many kids learn to play 'patterns', never learning what any of it means, and generally it sounds like sh|t.

So, now that we are past the misunderstanding, your teacher isn't giving you bull****, but the idea of patterns is bull****. Yes, there are patterns on the fretboard; No, you don't have to follow them! Once you start thinking "Hm....This is the pattern...." you are forcing your creative side to limit what notes you play, and so on.

So Please, do not think of them as patterns. Think of them as possibilities.

~Incidents

I think patterns are an easier way to teach the fretboard. At first it will limit your creativity but it also opens up the door to many more possibilities.

Many people that begin to play, learn by books or the internet, generally learn one key of one scale. They don't understand how to move that "pattern" up and down the fretboard. Once you understand the pattern, and the NOTES that make up that pattern it becomes much easier. It's also easier to change keys once you know the "patterns."

After you have grasped the idea of the patterns, it gives you an idea of how to use them to your advantage.

So you really helped me and calmed me down! thanks guys. But let me know just a few things? How would be the perfect way to learn this scales stuff from my level, my teacher said the best would be to learn the fretboard with each tone by heart, but that would be quite hard, but i would be ready to do this. So but when i learned this what should i do know, if i know the fretboard by heart? Another question: What are the other main important things that you should learn very well to get a good guitarist, because i don´t know if that what i practice is right or the best( I would also be ready to practice 7 hours a day. And the last question: I want to know if it is good that i can play the "one" solo, majority of sad but true, and justice and master of puppets solo by metallica after half a year playing the guitar and 3 months playing the e guitar? Were you better when you were in my age(15) or at my practicing time? Am i at a good way?
I know these are quite a lot of questions, but althuogh try to answer as much as possible.

Originally posted by beginner
I want to know if it is good that i can play the "one" solo, majority of sad but true, and justice and master of puppets solo by metallica after half a year playing the guitar and 3 months playing the e guitar? Were you better when you were in my age(15) or at my practicing time? Am i at a good way?

I am 15 years old as well, and I will not lie to you; you have a long way to go. Simply saying you are up to practicing 7 hours a day doesn't mean ou will actually practice 7 hours a day; quantity of time isn't really the answer, it's quality time. If you have bad habits on the guitar, and practice 7 hours a day, you just might be speeding up a possible Carpel-Tunnel problem, otherwise found down the road.

Note: I play 5-7 hours a day, four hours of which are improvisation. I strongly believe in improvisation, and the ability to improvise.

~Incidents

Don't get into a numbers game on how many hours a day you practice. Most of us are well past our mid-teens, and we have to spend most of our time on doing things that put food on the table. These days I find that a few hours a week is all I can allocate to my guitars. But then, I haven't played for pay since the early '70s. It's a whole different world when you no longer have your parents subsidizing your lifestyle. Hang in there, beginner; it sounds to me like you're doing just fine. And any path that gets you to your goal is a good way to go.

To incedents happen:

So what do you practice when you practicew improvisation? How long have you playing the guitar?

Give me tips how i should learn these important guitar things and how i should learn them.

Ok if your not wanting to modulating then just play it as a vamp. Take the Am - G7 - Cm, and just stick G7 at the end again and you got a vamp. Am - G7 - Cm - G7, repeat. Like the thread I am discussion about bIII chords. This one is I, bVII, bIII, bVII.

About patterns, I think this depends on how you learn. There's nothing wrong with learning patterns in my opinion, patterns are actually very powerful tools for improvising, like pentatonics. A improvising guitarist can't live without these types of ideas. I agree with incidents though, you shouldn't think of your art as being a collection of patterns. Rather movement from scale to scale. If your talking about using patterns to learn scales, I don't know how else you learn scales because scales are nothing by intervallic patterns. I dunno.

When it comes to practicing, the most important habit is practicng daily. You improve quicker if you practice for 30 minutes every day, than if you play 7-9 hrs a day once or twice a week. In my case when I practiced 7 hrs a day it soon became like a job rather than fun, and I eventually stopped playing for awhile. Maybe it won't happen to you but I definitely wouldn't suggest playing longer than what you want. Be dedicated but have a life outside guitar. Anyways I was once told this quote and it is very true, "Miss one day of practicing and you will notice, miss two days and your friends will notice, miss three days and everyone will notice".

Thanks dude! To the first pargraph: I didn´t understand anything, i think i have to study more theory.

And to the last paragraph: If it´s so bad not playing for a few days why happened then follwing to me:

I played 3 hours a day for 2 months till i went 4 days or something to the metallica concert in Austria. My friends(who are also guitarists) saw before and after the concert playing and they said i had improved myself a lot over these days and forgot that i wasn´t here. And I recognized the same: When i came back i was able to play the one solo, which i couldn´t before and so on..

The kind of practice you do is an important factor. Also, sometimes taking a break for a few days allows your mind to work on things subconsciously. I think the concert served as an inspiration to help you play better.

Originally posted by beginner
To incedents happen:

So what do you practice when you practicew improvisation? How long have you playing the guitar?

Give me tips how i should learn these important guitar things and how i should learn them.

That's Incidents*
The thing about improvisation is that there are no rules, no laws, no boundaries, no time limits. There is a whole lotta' nothing, and you have to learn to make something out of nothing. That is one form of improvisation called "Free-Form", or as I like to call it "Space-Form". Other types of improvisation include improvising during solos (every solo I play is improvised, to some degree). I'm a lead guitarist in a Jam-Band, I'm not sure if you know what that means, but basically it means that the solos are longer, less flashy, and usually more in depth (If you follow "The Dead" route, that is). I pride myself on not being a flashy guitarist, when so many guitarists are. Occasionally I'll throw in some flashy Blues-Licks during the 2nd and 3rd sets, but that's only because every once in a while I enjoy that. You have to spend time with your instrument, learning as much as you can. It doesn't matter what you learn, as long as you are learning. I have a good technique, in that my pinky finger is as strong as any other finger on my hand, and I use all four fingers, all the time, whereas most guitarists' pinkies tend to be dead weight (don't respond en masse with "I use my pinky!!"; that's great, but you aren't everyone else).

I play alot of my solos on what you'd call the 'clean' channel. Distortion is nice, but most guitarists over-do it, because they want to sound like Jimmy Page or Hendrix (etc). Let me tell you right now; if you learn to solo with distortion, you will have bad habits. Guarranteed. Distortion covers up several flaws in guitarists' techniques; What I'm saying is, learn to solo on the clean channel first, make sure every note is there, and full of power. You may say "Well, it sounds weak when i have no distortion on....." You have to learn to make the notes powerful, and ring true. I personally guarrantee it, if you can make a clean note sound powerful (think John Lee Hooker, powerful...or think whoever you want, i don't care), once you put the distortion/overdrive on, it will sound much better than if you started out with distortion.

And lastly, look; Not everyone is meant to be a lead guitarist. There is nothing wrong with rhythm guitar, you might be the kind of person that would play rhythm guitar. The first thing you have to understand is that some people simply never grasp the concept of lead guitar, and will always play rhythm guitar. These are the people that spend 4-5 hours a day playing rhythm guitar, and become very good at it. You may be the type that plays lead, or maybe you're the type that plays both. Only time will tell.

~Incidents

Originally posted by beginner
I played 3 hours a day for 2 months till i went 4 days or something to the metallica concert in Austria. My friends(who are also guitarists) saw before and after the concert playing and they said i had improved myself a lot over these days and forgot that i wasn´t here. And I recognized the same: When i came back i was able to play the one solo, which i couldn´t before and so on..

Probably what Lord said. You needed a break. I've had the same thing happen to me too, sometimes coming back to something fresh helps. What I mean by practicing consistantly is try to play everyday even if it's for 15 minutes, you will get better faster if you do. A guitar player has to be consistant so it's good to get into that habit. Miss a day here and there or go on vacation for a few days won't hurt, and if you've stuck with the daily habit it's good to take a break. But don't get into the habit of taking breaks, like you said you played for 2 months, not a few days a week. I know right now I've gottn into classsical guitar and if I take a day off, the part I could play a few days ago becomes alittle sloppy after a day missed. I try to play everyday and I've made pretty good progress so far. It's been alittle over a month maybe 2 since I started and I went from knowing about 5 pieces, now I know 30 some.

I agree with NTM here. It's better to practice a little bit everyday than to practice 9 hours a day once a week.