How to improve my timing and groove as a mid-level guitarist?

Hey everyone,
I've been playing guitar for a while now (probably somewhere around an intermediate level), and lately I've noticed that my timing and groove aren't as tight as I'd like them to be, especially when playing along with backing tracks or jamming with friends.

Are there any specific exercises, habits, or techniques you recommend to really lock in timing and feel?
Would love to hear how you practiced it when you were at this stage.

Thanks a lot in advance!

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Honestly, I think the most important thing is just consistent practice with a metronome.

If you're having trouble locking in with backing tracks or during jams with friends, there's a good chance it's just that the internal timing hasn't been trained enough yet. And to be fair, during jams, sometimes no one is really in time — so it’s hard to tell who’s off.

That’s why metronome work is so essential. It’s not flashy, but it really builds that solid foundation.

I have the same question. I have been using a metronome for everything for quite a while and it still seems like I am not where I should be with my internal clock especially when playing more complicated songs with ghost notes, sixteenth notes mixed in with eight notes, etc. which is common fare in  any song. I just keep plugging along tapping my foot with the beat and hoping it all clicks in at some point. It’s gotten better but man it just ain’t good enough yet.

Any method of making sure you are playing in time is beneficial.  These include playing with a metronome, or along with a recording, or a backing track, or even other musicians.  

But it's important to realize that there are often multiple steps involved in this process of increasing your skill.  At first you have to focus on the physical motions, making sure they are executed cleanly and correctly.  Then you gradually start to increase your speed at those motions.

I've seen many students get frustrated by their inability to play something (lick, riff, whole song) perfectly in time & up to speed when they just figured it out or just started learning it.  We've all been there!

Repetitious practice & patience is of course the general solution.  But it can help to get clear on exactly what you're having trouble with.  

If there is some specific technique or aspect of your playing you are struggling with, please ask!

Christopher, I was hoping you would see and respond this post! I find your responses to be super helpful on the forum.

As I mentioned I use a metronome for everything throughout my practice routine. Practicing scales, working through elements of songs or lessons at a slower tempo, etc. When I have learned a song, most recently, China Grove, You Shook Me All Night Long and Are You Gonna Be My Girl I know when I am actually playing I can’t count my way through it I have to feel it. I study the counting when I am learning the song to understand how to play it but once I learn it and play it with the backing track I rely on tapping my foot to maintain the tempo. I am getting better at it and I am pretty darn close on all three of those songs. But sometimes playing arpeggios or just repeating riffs in the song can briefly throw me off as my hands have to play notes in between my foot taps. That issue can also apply to chord anticipations. I am trying to anchor my hands to key downbeats I am tapping with my foot in the more complicated bars of a song to keep myself in time. In short I am working to better feel the connection between what I am playing with my hands and the beat I am keeping with my foot tapping when the rhythm and or riffs get more complicated.

I hope my rambling makes sense to you. The question is this the right approach and is it just a matter if putting in the time to make if feel more natural? At this point I can play each of the songs fairly closely to the backing track it just becomes a matter of repetition for me to actually not have to think about it. I am hoping the process becomes faster and more natural and I progress.

Thanks in advance for any advice. I very much enjoy your lessons and am working through your series on Triads again as think it’s a super important concept to get under my fingers and apply.

Thanks and best, Michael

Hey, Michael.  

It sounds like you have a good, methodical approach to learning.  In general, yes it is mostly a matter of time & repetitious practice to make playing more second nature.  But there are a few things that can help your practice more effective.

Responding by point.

"When I have learned a song, most recently, China Grove, You Shook Me All Night Long and Are You Gonna Be My Girl I know when I am actually playing I can’t count my way through it I have to feel it."

That's fine.  It's how most players approach it.  It takes a focused effort just to play the parts correctly in time.  Doing that while at the same time consciously counting beats or rhythms is a extra level.  It does gradually get easier the more you play. 

When I learn a song that's the first step, just play it in time.  In order to teach it I have to make that extra work step to be able to consciously count through it. 

"But sometimes playing arpeggios or just repeating riffs in the song can briefly throw me off as my hands have to play notes in between my foot taps."

That's an indication you don't have those parts firmly under your command.  This is when you isolate a few bars, or enough that you can loop a section in time to repeat them for extra practice.

Sometimes I'll take a one or two bar riff or lick and slow it down to where I can count every subdivision and then play it for 30 minutes (or more!).  The more complex it is sometimes I don't even use the metronome or play it strictly in time until I really get the physical motions to where I can play them with my explicit counting aloud.  I only get the metronome or backing track back out once I can make the playing and count all second nature.

Make sense?

Sometimes for repeated riffs I will make a point of doing isolated practice just counting the riff.  I start with counting each repetition.  Then try to get to 2, then 4, then 8.  Usually the song arrangement can help give you a heads up: the lyrics, a drum fill, a bass line.  But explicit counting at first, outside of playing the song can help.

In the end you don't need to count all the way through a song, or tap your foot all the time.  Those are just helpful tools to help you get to the end goal: playing the music in time and up to tempo.

But when you can count or tap at the same time, then you know you've really got it automated!

"The question is this the right approach and is it just a matter if putting in the time to make if feel more natural?"

In general, yes.  But targeted practice, focused on problem areas is very helpful.

Glad you are enjoying my triads tutorials.  Keep practicing & let me know if you have more questions!

Christopher, I really can’t thank you enough for your guidance and advice on this super important topic. I have read over your response several times and it makes complete sense to me. I see now that I need to take the time to really get the counting internalized versus trying to feel my way through it by just tapping my foot to beat. (Granted that approach seems to work on easy parts of a song that don’t require more complicated execution.) 

I applied your advice yesterday afternoon during my practice and I could already see a difference. In retrospect think I was being a bit lazy about getting the key counting details ingrained in my desire to quickly learn to play the song which in the end was slowing down rather than speeding up the process. Kind of like trying to paint a room without all the prep work of taping it off.

In summary, do you count your way through a song at speed until you have it down and then do you find you have to think less about it and can just play it without having to think as much?

Again thank you for the guidance. Like everything in life getting the details right makes all the difference. 

Best, Michael

You're welcome!

"Kind of like trying to paint a room without all the prep work of taping it off."

That's a good analogy.

"In summary, do you count your way through a song at speed until you have it down and then do you find you have to think less about it and can just play it without having to think as much?"

I've been playing long enough that I usually only have to explicitly count out tricky subdivisions when I'm learning them.  For the most part I can count downbeats (quarter notes) through any tune.  The problem areas are usually matters of technical physical motions (complex parts of Bach pieces, for example), where the problem isn't so much knowing where and when the notes happen, the problem is getting my fingers to do it all in time!  So it's time to slow it down to get it exactly right.  Then gradually up to speed.

But yes, in general once I can do that I don't think about it consciously as much.  In fact the faster or more complex a part is you don't have time to think about each event.  You have to count on repetitious practice & second nature.  The goal is to think in larger units, to have practiced so much that a whole riff, phrase, or section is contained in your conscious mind as "that part", "that riff" & the hours of focused repetitious practice take care of executing the physical process.

First you practice until you get it right.  Then you practice until you can't play it wrong.

Make sense?

This makes total sense to me. Incredibly helpful! 

I so appreciate your guidance and insight into your process and how you approach learning a song. I know I can’t get to the next step in my journey without getting much better at this skill. But now I have a good handle on how to move forward.

Thinking about it now it seems like I should have known to do this but I think of a lot of learners may also not fully understand the attention to detail and time it takes to do it properly. Or I could be an isolated incident. :) 

If you don’t mind I would like to continue to check in from time to time to let you know how it’s going or if I have any other questions. 

All the best, Michael

Hello Mike!

You are not an isolated incident. And I am thinking it may be harder for us "aged" learners to pickup on this. As you know I play with a group and timing is something that is a challenge, not just for me. Sometimes we "wander about..." and there is no guarantee that we will all cross the finish line at the same time which can be a bit funny.

So yes, I think we all need to work on it, as I do, but even when I tell myself to concentrate, I sometimes end up wandering off at some point in the song and then have to try and place myself again. 

This is one reason I like some of the George Straight and Hank III tunes. 3 chords and steady tempos. I will usually play Country Heros a few times a week just to remind myself, yeah I can play this thing - at least at some level. 

Learning Time from Dark  Side of the Moon - bass parts - was the hardest song for me to learn yet and I still struggle with it when we play it. If I want to play it I have to practice it again until I get his timing correct.

Bill 

You are definitely not an isolated incident.  This is the nature of learning anything.  Everything seems obvious in hindsight.  Everything seems easy once you  understand it or can do it.  :)

Please check in any time you want.  My instructor forum is the best way to make sure I'll see your questions.

https://www.guitartricks.com/forum/c/36

Will do Christopher. I am already seeing progress by taking your approach. Thanks again!

Bill, always great to get your perspective! As we have discussed many times it’s all a matter being diligent, stubborn and willing to adjust when things aren’t working. Enjoy that beautiful Les Paul Gold Top and keep on rocking!

✌