Rack Essentials...?

Firm,perky and..whoops!Wrong kind of rack!
I already own a guitar head,but the rack appeals to me.Ive looked at various equipment such as the BBE 362 sonic maximizer,Rocktron Hush Super C,Line 6 POD PRO XT and so on.Besides aiming to improve on my sound it would leave the option to use a power amp/pre amp setup open.What are some of your ideas of rack gear essentials or "must haves"?

Also,as of this post I will no longer use this\m/( - - )\m/
as ive found it to be stupid.I will stick with just \m/

Later! \m/

A handful of firm and perky!!! Oops! That wasn't the question. The BBe Sonic Maximizer is a great tool, some people like them and some don't see any use for them. I'm one of those peeps that like them, especially for recording because it cleans up the signal by boosting the signals you want boosted. As for live, I don't know how much use you'll get from it. This is where I see most people saying it's useless. It doesn't really effect your sound much, so if your looking for more of a live set-up. I wouldn't recommend it. What you should look at instead is a power-conditioner, this is what's gonna clean up your sound especially if your building a rackmount. A power conditioner cleans out the AC build up you get from using alot of electronics in your sound. They're relatively cheap too. Definitely get yourself a good EQ too, even if you get a real good amp head like a Rocktron or POD. Both are good but I perfer POD, just my personal taste. Another good thing to have is at least one effects processor, Lexicon if you can afford it. This will definitely come in handle since the effects like reverb and chorus are awfully limiting on just a Amp Rackmount. But a definite must have if your building a rack is a power-conditioner.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 07-29-2003 at 09:14 PM]

Yep...Furman makes affordable power conditioners,but I always thought that a power conditioner just protected your gear from surges.I never knew they cleaned up your sound!I have ZERO knowlege of using rack effects with midi boards.

p.s For the value and quality which is better...The POD PRO or the Behringer V-AMP rack units?

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
... A power conditioner cleans out the AC build up you get from using alot of electronics in your sound...

WTF???? :confused: ??? I just gotta see how you explain that!

Haha. I'm not going too try to explain, I'm just going to send you a link with the specs on a furman power conditioner and you can agrue with them about it. I was unable to link a PDF spec file for mine, but here's mine (well the one that I use at the studio I go to or work at.). First Paragraph.

http://www.americanmusicalsupply.com/item.asp?UID=2003073118184572&menu=&keyword=&item=FUR+PLPROD

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 07-31-2003 at 06:29 PM]

As it happens, I run a lab that measures the conducted and radiated electrical noise emitted by products that need to meet certain government-imposed standards before they can be marketed. Check my Profile.

1) Switch-mode power supplies are indeed inexcusably noisy. Having several of them in the same rack would indeed create a bad situation.

2) The noise these power supplies generate is conducted back into the AC mains they are plugged into.

3) If a bunch of these noisy phuckers are plugged into a simple power-bar, they will definitely pollute each other's AC supply.

So far, any power conditioner manufacturers reading this are nodding, and grinning.... now comes the bad news...

Unless [u]each individual outlet[/u] in a power conditioner has it's own filter and surge suppressor, anything plugged into this device is going to share it's noise with anything else plugged into the same device.

For the posted price of three easy payments of $99 each, my experience in the industry suggests that there is only one full set of filters in this box. In other words, the outlet side is likely to be protected from noise that originates on the AC mains that the protection device is plugged into, but any equipment plugged into the outlet side of this device is probably not offered any protection from other devices which are also plugged into that outlet.

To elicit the proper response, I will suggest this creates a situation in which the devices plugged into the outlet of such half-assed gear is safe from the potential hazards of the river water, but they're left to drink each other's piss! Yummy!

Cool. I'm glad someone with your experience comes to this site, you sure do know a lot. I've seen the rack mount setup at my recording studio with and without the power conditioner. All I can say is it's a lot better with it than without it. That's why I suggested it although it may have been untimely since your post.

As I hope I made clear, such devices are designed to protect their outlet from the junk that lurks on the AC mains. That is a valuable, and necessary, service. It's only part of the job, however.

The standards that apply to equipment that is connected to the mains are intended to limit the amount of noise that such equipment can dump into those mains. It's very much like the regulations that prevent factories from dumping dirty water into a river. The rules don't reduce that amount to zero. If you connect a bunch of compliant, approved, devices to the same AC circuit, they will each contribute some noise to that shared supply.

Switch-mode power supplies have two big advantages for manufacturers: they are are electrically efficient, and they are small. This allows for smaller total package size, making them cheaper to build. They regulate the amount of power they deliver to their host equipment by rapidly turning the AC on & off. The longer, or more often they are ON, the more power they deliver. Reducing the ON-time reduces the amount of power they deliver. The downside is that the switching action makes a lot of noise.

They get their efficiency from the property of the transistors that they use as switches. If a switch is either ON, or OFF, there is either very little voltage drop across the switch, (ON = zero resistance), or there is approximately zero current through it (OFF = infinite resistance). Since power is equal to Voltage x Current, any product where one of the factors is zero, must equal zero. Zero power lost in the switch = zero heat = no need for huge heatsinks = small device. Wunderbar!

The noise comes from the very brief period of time during the transition between the ON and OFF states. The resistance is neither zero nor infinite, but some finite value in between. During this condition, there is a voltage drop across the switch, and current is flowing. This means that some power is dissipated in the switch. It also means that it produces elctromagnetic energy. This switching noise shows up as conducted emissions on the AC mains, and also as radiated emissions that can be picked up by any nearby antenna.

This electrical noise pollution can wreak havoc on complex systems that have many interconnected devices operating at frequencies that are close to those generated by the noise sources. Like digital audio processors and recorders, for instance. Hence the need for things like AC line filters and surge suppressors.

The rack I've been using for the past 5 yrs. consists of a Mesa Boogie 5o watt power amp, a Mesa boogie tri-axis pre-amp, and a lexicon multi effects processor.
Although I'm very fond of the power aand pre amp, I could do without the lexicon, in my opinion digital reverb is not very good for guitar. One of these days I will replace it with a rack mountable spring reverb device.

Lord, suddenly I feel like some of people who say they get completely lost when I get into my theory explainations. -LOL- :) I know alot people might think a Noise Gate would get rid of such AC noise, which is sometimes true. But noisegates on a guitar is a bad choice especially live cause you may set the noisegate to knock out the noise but when you play something soft, it chops out some of the guitar signal. Bad!!! Power-conditioners are good since they just focus on the noise, no cutting at a certain db level.

Originally posted by chris mood
The rack I've been using for the past 5 yrs. consists of a Mesa Boogie 5o watt power amp, a Mesa boogie tri-axis pre-amp, and a lexicon multi effects processor.
Although I'm very fond of the power aand pre amp, I could do without the lexicon, in my opinion digital reverb is not very good for guitar. One of these days I will replace it with a rack mountable spring reverb device.

Both of your Mesa amps probably have what we call "heavy iron" power supplies. That means big transformers, and linear regulation (if any!).

The Lexicon is a likely candidate for a swichmode PS. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Living next door to someone who parties a lot is only a problem if they're making noise when you really want some quiet! :)

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
... Power-conditioners are good since they just focus on the noise, no cutting at a certain db level.

A well designed and constructed power conditioning unit will stop [u]one[/u] source of noise. I make a living at my day job because there are lots of noise sources. It's a dirty world!

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
Lord, suddenly I feel like some of people who say they get completely lost when I get into my theory explainations. -LOL- :) ...

I can sympathise - I'm one of the people who get all glassy-eyed and unfocused when I try to follow that music theory stuff.... it's too ... theoretical! :D

I hate most effects processors (and I when I say "hate," I mean I &%$^$*!@ loath them), but I have a rack anyway. It consists of a Gemini power conditioner with lights (so I can see mah stuff on a dark stage), an Azden wireless, and my Sunn 1200s.

Someday soon I want to add in a good rackmount tuner, and maybe a Sansamp for direct recording or going to the PA and some kind of utility drawer.

I like having my stuff all in one unit I can heft up ontop of my cabinet, plug into the wall, plug in my amp's footswitch, plug in my speaker(s), then plug my bass into. It makes things a lot simpler since everything is set up right from the get-go and I only have to turn one thing on and I'm ready to go.

Thanks guys,ive got a vague idea of what I'll incorporate into my rack rig

1.A good eq(six bands just dosnt cut the cake)
2.Wireless reciever(I'm sick of pounds of tangled,static mess)
3.Rocktron hush unit(Hate them banshee wails!)
4.POD PRO or V-AMP PRO(mix and match madness)
5.A decent power conditioner(its effect is debatable,but good insurance either way)
6.Mabey an aural exiter,big bottom thingy.

And last but not least...

Two or more eternal memorial lights in the red ruby cyclinder
with gold extremities and cross(you know,those funeral/gravesite lights that stick out of the ground...It will give the whole rig a dark,stomach sick feel...I'll rig somthing up so there at the sides of my half stack or rack..and a decent fog machine and a laser widow.)

Hey has anyone ever actually tested both the POD pro rack processor and the Beringer V-amp side by side. I was looking at one today in the Musicians Friend Catalog I got in the mail and was wondering if there is a considerable difference in sound for the almost $400.00 in price...

Originally posted by chucklivesoninmyheart
... 5.A decent power conditioner(its effect is debatable,but good insurance either way)...

It's a good thing to have; like any other piece of gear, you should understand what it does, and what it doesn't do, that's all.

As hrbndrckr(hair band recker?)stated above,I would like to know exactly why theres such a price difference for two very similar products.It couldnt just be the brand name...could it?

that's rckr, as in "rocker" chucky :)

sorry bout that rocky