can someone answer this question?

I post and dont really get any help. wish someone people could clear up some things for me. Wheres a good site to learn what scales go with other scales. i guess youl would say relatives. or how do you know which scales fit together. i found A minor pent goes with G major. sounds right to me. so if u use the same postions amin and g major postion anywhere on the board is that right. or does it change. Also should i not practice in just one key?please help guys

Sorry I may have missed you before. The scales that go with other scales are pents. Like A major pentatonic goes with A major scale.

Also relatives, A major goes with F# minor. This is a modally idea. A mode is just a original major scale except your starting on a different root. Like A major (Ionian) has the same notes as F# minor (Aeolian). B dorian, C# Phyrgian, and so on all have the same notes as A major.

And yeah the A minor pent does have the same notes as the G major scale. This stems from the chordal structure of a major scale, which is this. I ii iii IV V vi viio. Capitals are major and smalls are minor. The one with an "o" at the end is diminished but don't worry about that one. These chords are structured as triads or arpeggios, which is what a pentatonic scale is. Just an extended broken arpeggio. So there are many pents that exist within a major scale. In G major, the G major pent (I), A minor pent (ii), B min pent (iii), C major pent (IV), D major pent (V), and E minor pent (vi).

Yeah the position of a A minor pent can be the same as the G major scale, using the G position of the A minor pent. You've probably heard someone say something about the 5 different positions to plays pents in. Each note inside a pentatonic used as a starting point is a different position. You should practice all of them.

The way I practice scales and I've found that it works great is to practice all your scales in one key one day, then the next day play all of them in a different key. Like monday you practice all your scales in B, then Tuesday play them in C. Play with a metronome and start off with a setting that you can play the scales very naturally. Move the setting on the metronome up a few BPM's as you get faster. It's a good routine to into.

http://www.zentao.com/guitar/ is a good site to learn more about theory.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 06-27-2003 at 03:57 PM]

thanks bro, yea i kinda see what your saying. im gonna try out that key everyday thing. my 2nd question if im playing the aminor up and down one day, as well as the gmaj form along with it. could i do that with any minor like c, and also play the same major form . what i mnea is if u play 1st postion in amin and 1st in gmaj, since they sound right...if u use the same form can u play that way in any key or does the maj form change with being ina diff key for min.if so how do u know this.sorry if that was confusing.

Originally posted by Neil22
thanks bro, yea i kinda see what your saying. im gonna try out that key everyday thing. my 2nd question if im playing the aminor up and down one day, as well as the gmaj form along with it. could i do that with any minor like c, and also play the same major form .

The first thing I gotta say is DON'T GET YOUR SCALES CONFUSED. Looks like your heading down that direction and that will cause more questions and lead you to miss what is more beneficial. I will get to your question in a second but I'm going to explain something so you know why. Scales like the major and minor are diatonic scales, there primarily use is for song/chord structure. Scales like the pents are used for harmonizing certain chords. When your practicing your scales and then applying them, the most important thing you want to understand about a scale is it's tonality. Even though some scales have the same notes, there tonality is different. Play a A minor scale and then play a C major scale, starting from the root. Now you should be able to tell a difference between them in sound, one sounds minor the other sounds major even though they are made up of the same notes. Since music is about sound this is what you want to understand above all.

So techincally yes you can do that, but your missing that every important point. You don't want to confuse the G major scale with the A minor pent. Think of them as 2 completely different entities because that's what they are.
The G amjor scales works over a (G) major chord, and the A minor pent works over (think only) a A minor chord. The G major scale only has 1 position, from G. Playing the G major scale from a note other than G is a mode. Pents are the same way although there not referred to as modes but positions. Since pents are harmonic scales, and say your playing a A minor pent over a A minor chord. It's is important to know how to start a harmony on a note other than A, why you learn the different positions of pents.

what i mnea is if u play 1st postion in amin and 1st in gmaj, since they sound right...

Yeah they sound right because they have the same notes, but they do sound different. If you start on the root, one sounds major and one sounds minor. I can't emphasize that enough.

if u use the same form can u play that way in any key or does the maj form change with being ina diff key for min.

The minor scale has the same structure as the Major scale except the minor starts with the 6th chord: i iio III iv v VI VII. Apply the same thing that I showed you in the last post about what pents exist within a scale, you should be able to figure out what your asking. The forms are the same.

Hopefully I answered what you were asking.
[/B] [/QUOTE]

ok maybe i have the wrong concept. but is Aminors relative major C major scale or G maj? and if you were playing a solo you could use A minor and c maj, or A minor and G? Also can you list out each penatonic key, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and the major i can practice along with it. like if i was practcing A minor one day, and Gmaj along with it. even though sights say A minors relative is C maj, which i dont think sounds right. so what are the majors to play with each key. Or should i stray away from just memerizing patterns with my hands, to make soloing easier to fall back on. sorry if this is annoying ya.

Originally posted by Neil22
ok maybe i have the wrong concept. but is Aminors relative major C major scale or G maj?

See your already getting confused. This is exactly why I say don't think of one scale being the same as another. At first glance it seems like it would be easier to do this and make sense of scales. But it just pushes everything about scales together to where you can't make sense of any of it. The A minor scales relative major is C. I'll tab out the A minor scale, and show you.


|A minor scale|
g:--------------0-2-4-5-
d:--------0-2-3---------
a:--0-2-3---------------
|C major scale|


and if you were playing a solo you could use A minor and c maj, or A minor and G? [/B]

Although these 2 scales are often noted together, they each serve different purposes. If your playing a solo, the easiest way to figure out what scale to use is by looking at the chord your going to be soloing over. If it's an A minor chord, you'll use the A minor scale. If it's C major chord, use C major. It's a h3ll of alot easier to just match the root then to think of what scale has the same notes? or is relative? or whatever way you can twist it to make it 1000 times harder. Once you understand the tonalities of a scale it's easier to choose which one your going to use. A must for improv.

Also can you list out each penatonic key, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, and the major i can practice along with it. [/B]

A pentatonic exists in whatever key that pentatonic will fit. Example: the A pentatonic exists in any key that there is an A major chord. Reread the parts of the first post where I wrote out the chordal structure of the major key. And the second post where I wrote the minor key chordal structure. You can see where a certain pentatonic will fit in each key. If you need to write out all 12 roots in both keys, and you can figure out where each pent will fit in at. I'm sorry but I not going to do that one for you.

like if i was practcing A minor one day, and Gmaj along with it. [/B]

No practice all your scales with the same root. Do your A major scale, then your A minor scale, A major pent, A minor pent, and so on. Don't think your playing the B minor pent when your playing the A major scale cause your not. FORGET how certain scales are the same or whatever. If you just stop thinking of how scales are the same, and think of each as 1 individual scale. Everything (patterns. sounds, and how to use them) will eventually make sense.

That zentao sites are pretty impressive Noticing :D Got visuals and everything. Cheers matey!

hey yea nice sight. real quick question...i have been doing a key a day. I learned all the scale positions. But should i be learning the whole scale or the broken down parts. I have been learning both. Like in E key its E,G,A,B,D , (penatonic) should i just study the same notes in diff postions, or should i know the whole form, just incase im learning both.

Noticingthemistake hits another one over the fence !

Ok when your doing your scale practices and you come to your pentatonics. Start of with you E minor pentatonic from E.


g:-----------7-9-9-7----------
d:-------7-9---------9-7------
a:--7-10-----------------10-7-


Then start with G in the same position and the same scale. I will note that G major pentatonic contains the same notes and the E minor, but when you start from the G position (2nd pos.) think of it still as the E minor pentatonic. That was just for your info, don't get obsessed. Ok, here's the G position of the E minor pent.


g:---------7-9-12-12-9-7--------
d:-----7-9---------------9-7----
a:--10-----------------------10-


Continue on until you've done all 5 position and your done. Think of the whole thing as learning a single pentatonic scale, and remember to think of each position as you play them still being the root key note, E in this case. This doesn't apply to any other scale except your pents, and blues.

Here's a previous post where I explain some different ways to practice scales in case you get bored with the same routine or picking up and down, blah blah.
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=6631

Another thing is good is to apply what your learning with your scale practice. Like the legato thing, if you starting to learn a solo with alot of legato and you really want to bust at it. Apply it with your scale practice.

Thanx, andy. That is a good site to start with, if your interested in theory and probably the best I've seen that applies to guitar.

Dr.Simon-

Whats up doc haven't heard much from you in a couple of days.

[Edited by noticingthemistake on 07-02-2003 at 11:07 AM]

http://www.midnightdruggist.com/

This is a very cool site.

that is another nice sight. I got a question about relative minor scales. For instance c maj's relative minor is A minor. But is the Cmaj in major form or penatonic major. i know a minor is in Aminor pent right...

Yeah The C major scale is pretty much the same as a C major pentatonic scale. Just ommit the 4th and 7th note in the C major scale and you have the c maj pent.

Cmajor scale: c, d, e, f, g, a, b
c major pent: c, d, e, g, a

Same thing with the minor pent and minor scale, except you omit the 2nd and the 6th.
Aminor scale: a, b, c, d, e, f, g
a minor pent: a, c, d, e, g