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Neil22
New Member
Joined: 06/04/03
Posts: 18
Neil22
New Member
Joined: 06/04/03
Posts: 18
06/04/2003 10:38 pm
Hey i am new to this site. I been playing guitar for 8 years, but nevre took the time to learn scales n theory and such, till within last month or so. I notice they help, but some things confuse me. I have a few questions, so if anyone could give me any helpful advice that be great. Ok i am very influenced by blues lately, and of course rock hehe. I know the penatonic minor/major and im working on the regular magor. Where do i go about after that. What Major goes with the penatonic minor A, and whats the diff between pent/minor major, how do you combine them, same key?
I notice some guitarist stay in same postion on fretboard and solo there a while , but it sounds differnent? are they just using bends and vibrotos, and other scales? What scales should i start practicing, and where can i learn how to bend and all that extremely well. I am kinda getting lost i can improvise but i feel like im limited, someone get me out of this mud pit.
# 1
TheDirt
Registered User
Joined: 03/28/02
Posts: 569
TheDirt
Registered User
Joined: 03/28/02
Posts: 569
06/05/2003 4:32 pm
Well, this doesn't have too much to do with theory, but it's worth a shot. BTW, this will be a long reply, sorry in advance. Get a jam track in say A minor. Stick with that old box you first learned, as well as the same box up one octave.

Key: o = root note
• = non-root pentatonic scale note

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
|---|---|---|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|
|---|---|---|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|---|
Now, when you're playing, try going up or down a couple frets from the standard box to a note that sounds good. You can examine the theory afterwards, but just go for what sounds good right now. You might end up with something like this...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|
|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--•|
|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|
|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|---|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|
|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|
|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|
Now, your playing has expanded a good deal horizontally. You can keep expanding outwardly from what you already have to get...

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|
|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--•|
•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|
•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|
o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|
•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|---|--•|---|---|--•|---|--o|---|---|--•|---|--•|
You can break down what you've got now into boxes and shapes for memorization and transposition. Start with a note on the sixth string and use the two note per string approach and you've got...

|--•|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--o| |--o|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--•|---|
|---|--•|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--•| |--•|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--o| |---|--o|---|---|--•|
|--•|---|--o|---| |--•|---|---|--•| |--•|---|--•|---| |--•|---|--•|---| |--•|---|---|--•|---|
|--•|---|--•|---| |--•|---|---|--•| |--•|---|--o|---| |--•|---|---|--o| |---|--•|---|--•|---|
|--o|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--•| |--•|---|--•|---| |--•|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--o|---|
|--•|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--o| |--o|---|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--•| |---|--•|---|--•|---|


What you've just done is discover the five basic root-6 pentatonic patterns by ear, and you can now play in any key all over the fretboard by using these boxes. Feeling stuck in one position? Try a different box somewhere else on the fretboard! A final note to adding to this is USE YOUR EARS!! I'll make one last diagram (it's the last one I promise!) showing you a little something you could come up with by using your ears. This is a kind of guide to improvising in A Minor. You also asked for good bends, so I'll include good notes to bend up a whole step
Key: o=root note
•=other pentatonic note
B=good note to bend up a whole step
*=usually nice scalar note
#=use this scalar note with caution (only sounds good sometimes)
\=good grace note (i.e.-sounds good to slide from Bb to B)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|
*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--•|--\|--o|
•|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|
•|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|
o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|
•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|--\|--•|--#|--\|--B|--\|--o|--\|--*|--•|---|--B|

Notice that I put literally every note up there except the C#, which also can be tastefully applied sometimes (in blues a lot, and in other genres as a grace note from bending the b3 up a half step and choking the note)

Summary:
- Bend the 4th and 7th,
- Use the b9, b5, and natural 6 as grace notes
- Take care in using the b6
- USE YOUR EARS; people that have played for years can make playing in the standard box position good because they've tried everything and know what sounds good, regardless if it's right theory wise... look at Stevie Ray Vaughn, or any good blues player.

That took forever for me to type up and make everything line up and such, so I really hope that it helped. Feedback (good or bad) is welcome and appreciated.
"You must stab him in the heart with the Bone Saber of Zumacalis... well, you could stab him in the head or the lungs, too... and the saber, it probably doesn't have to be bone, just anything sharp lying around the house... you could poke him with a pillow and kill him."

- Aqua Teen Hunger Force, The Universal Re-Monster
# 2
kingdavid
Registered User
Joined: 01/25/02
Posts: 1,149
kingdavid
Registered User
Joined: 01/25/02
Posts: 1,149
06/05/2003 4:36 pm
You been been playing for more than twice as long as me,so I can't pretend to know more than you do(which I could,but I don't).
I will however act usher and wellcome you to the forum and tell you that if you stick around,you'll like it.There's also lots of folks around here whove been playing for mad seasons(I suspect their guitars have moonburn-if you've been playing every night since 1968,that isa likely scenario),and they know quite a lot of stuff and you could learn from them.
I will also give you some advice about getting attention around here;don't beg people to read your posts.They won't.Abuse them.:)Tell them,say,that guitar sucks(One person did this when I joined this forum).Try some controversy(There's two threads about the Iraq war here that ran for 33 and 20 something pages.Not replies.Pages).But remember not to be risque as you seek people's attention.That way,it will be productive that you did get their attention.Otherwise it won't be useful,coz,again,some folks here have tempers.
Cheers!
# 3
u10ajf
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Joined: 10/31/01
Posts: 611
u10ajf
Registered User
Joined: 10/31/01
Posts: 611
06/05/2003 6:14 pm
Here's a fantastic site which maps out scale for you, the "verbose"mode allows you to input your own scale formats as well as those more standard ones which are available. May I suggest that a good scale to learn is the A Harmonic Minor scale since all the notes are natural except for the G#, you may also want to learn diminished scales because the shapes are easy to memorise because they are symmetrical scales with lots of repeating motifs and have only two modes. Also try G Harmonic Major, this is an obscure scale but is only one note different from a major scale and so isn't too strange. These scales are great for adding a bit of heaviness to your playing and you will find some interesting chord progressions if you experiment with them. Personally I also dig B Bhairava scale and G Hungarian major. These are freaky scales for jazz heads and crazy metal heads who like really oppresive scale forms. Good luck, have fun.

http://www.power-chord.com/gaff/mapper/?verbose=1
If I couldn't laugh at myself how could I laugh at someone less ridiculous?
# 4
chris mood
High Bandwidth
Joined: 08/31/01
Posts: 1,319
chris mood
High Bandwidth
Joined: 08/31/01
Posts: 1,319
06/06/2003 4:14 pm
nice reply, you should get an award for that or something (seriously)
# 5
noticingthemistake
Crime Fighter
Joined: 08/04/02
Posts: 1,518
noticingthemistake
Crime Fighter
Joined: 08/04/02
Posts: 1,518
06/06/2003 7:35 pm
Yeah good reply dirt. One thing though, when you refer to a b6. By Music Theory terms, that description is incorrect and there is a good explaination. It's is always augmented (#5), rather than a b6. b6 makes it is sound like it's on the minor side of the harmonic spectrum. Even in a minor 6 chord the 6 is natural. The b6 as you said only occurs in augmented chords, as #5. This also helps alot in the use of this note harmonically. If the chord your harmonizing over ommited the 5th, this note will work. Sort of as a tweaked harmony (thus augmented). Often performed by bending the 5th up a half step. It rarely done the other way around, like sliding back from the natural 6 to the b6.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 6
Neil22
New Member
Joined: 06/04/03
Posts: 18
Neil22
New Member
Joined: 06/04/03
Posts: 18
06/07/2003 2:27 pm
Thanks guys that helps, i know the penatonic scale. What Major goes with the penatonic in key of A...Major pent and regular major...
# 7
noticingthemistake
Crime Fighter
Joined: 08/04/02
Posts: 1,518
noticingthemistake
Crime Fighter
Joined: 08/04/02
Posts: 1,518
06/07/2003 4:50 pm
Yeah, the major pentatonic scale goes with the major scale. Like A major pent goes with the key of A major or an A major chord, and the same with the minor pent which goes with a minor key and/or minor chord. You can also look at your major and minor blues scales which are a great alternative to pents as they also work in the same ways.
"My whole life is a dark room...ONE BIG DARK ROOM" - a.f.i.
# 8

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