Originally posted by chris mood
The augmented 6th chords came about (theoretically)before the Dominant 7th was recognized as being a chord.

Obviously before, because they are not the same chord as I have been saying for the last couple of posts. I knew exactly what griphon was saying, or should I say the french, italian, and german. Now the modern chordal structure does have a Dominant 7th chord, there is no need for this idea for it rips the modern chordal structure apart. The dominant 7 chord is probably the most known chord in music, but let's just starting calling it an augmented 6 for now on...

Here's my quote shortly after he addressed the fact that it's strictly an F,G,I matter:

Originally posted by noticingthemistake
Well, as an american I not aware of and not concerned with the french, italian, and german ways. To me they couldn't have made it anymore confusing by doing that, I thought music was one language. If thats the way the french, italian, and germans see it. Kool, but they probably see other things differently too. Which would probably rival everything that the american system stands for and works for me (cause I'm american). To me, it is a waste to even pursue any interest in that. In the end, since we're both american it's a waste to even bring it up in the first place. No offense.

As you can see I never disagreed that the F, G, I had a different way and that the chord augmented 6 was not the dominant 7th to them. I simply stated there is no need for it, since the modern system is much more clear that the augmented 6 is NOT the dominant 7.

Originally posted by chris mood
So basically the Itaian, German,& French chords are nothing but dominant 7th chords inverted.

Yeah, and how does this help anyone. Telling them that there is no such thing as a minor, diminished, or augmented chord. With this idea, how would you ever know the difference if I said play a C augmented 6. Is it C, E, G, A#, or C, Eb, G, A#, or C, Eb, Gb, A#, or C, E, G#, A#??? Would this go for all chords?? How bout a C diminished 7 chord. Is it C, E, G, Bb, or C, Eb, G, Bb, or C, E, G#, Bb, or C, Eb, Gb, Bb?? Now how is this simple????? Obviously the F, G, I saw the error in their understanding of chords as this shows, that's why we have the chordal structure we have now. But now let's introduce this again because it is SOO SIMPLE! HAHAHA. :D

Yeah maybe if you first figured out a dominant 7th, then inverted it, then figured it out. This idea would work to some degree. :rolleyes: Again, how is this simple??? Why would you want to make it that much harder. An augmented 6 chord is a simple augmented chord (triad) with the 6th note as an extension.

Originally posted by chris mood
the Italian 6th is nothing more than a Ab7 minus the 5th. It was given the name augmented 6th becuase of the interval between Ab & F#

Looks to me like it's more of an interval based idea. They were clearly not talking about chords in the function when they say augmented. So any chord with a raised interval is augmented?? Honestly, and with all due respect to the F, G, and I. This is idea is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. The 'modern' chordal structure is much stronger for it directly tells you what you playing. There is no opening for guessing if the augmented 6 chord is major, minor, diminished, or augmented structurally.

A C augmented 6 as it stands in modern chordal structure. There is no other way to write it!!!

C, E, G# - simple augmented triad

add the 6 note from C ; count C, D, E, F, G, "A". So it's

C, E, G#, A - C augmented 6