Back beat, down beat, up beat, strong beat, oy!!


dlwalke
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dlwalke
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09/08/2021 10:17 pm

Um....just want to make sure I got this terminology correct. In 4/4 (to keep things simple), the down beats are the 1 (strongest beat) and the 3 (2nd strongest beat), and the back beats are the 3 and the 4 (weaker beats but the ones that are generally emphasized in rock). The "ands" (even-numbered eighth notes) are often called "off beats" but sometimes other weak beats are called off-beats also.

You typically use downstrokes on both the down and up beats (that doesn't help) and upstrokes on the off-beats.

Did I get any of this wrong?


# 1
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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09/09/2021 1:59 pm
Originally Posted by: dlwalke

Um....just want to make sure I got this terminology correct.[/quote][p]Some of that is right. :)

All counted numbered beats are downbeat: 1-2-3-4. All downbeats.

The 1/8th note subdivisions in between are upbeats: "and" in between the downbeats.

Strong beat & weak beat are older terms that don't get much use outside of classical music & academic contexts.

Strong beats are downbeats 1 and 3. Weak beats are beats 2 and 4. It's important to realize that those terms are not prescriptive. They don't indicate to use a certain beat to make the music "sound strong or weak". They are simply terms used to distinguish between rhythmic events. Most music has some variety of beats with syncopated rhythms to make things interesting.

The backbeat is where the classical terms got reversed in popular music! The backbeats are beats 2 and 4. Where the snare drum typically pops to push the rhythm forward.

[quote=dlwalke]You typically use downstrokes on both the down and up beats (that doesn't help) and upstrokes on the off-beats.

That does happen quite a bit. But I think it's more of a correlation than a technique principle. Sometimes it's better (more efficient or musical) to use the opposite, an upstrum on a downbeat, or a downstrum on an upbeat.

There is no rule that says you must start with downstrums on downbeats. It's just a matter of convenience in basic strumming patterns.

Hope that helps!


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# 2
dlwalke
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dlwalke
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09/09/2021 6:21 pm
Originally Posted by: ChristopherSchlegel
Originally Posted by: dlwalke

Um....just want to make sure I got this terminology correct.[/quote][p]Some of that is right. :)

All counted numbered beats are downbeat: 1-2-3-4. All downbeats.

The 1/8th note subdivisions in between are upbeats: "and" in between the downbeats.

Strong beat & weak beat are older terms that don't get much use outside of classical music & academic contexts.

Strong beats are downbeats 1 and 3. Weak beats are beats 2 and 4. It's important to realize that those terms are not prescriptive. They don't indicate to use a certain beat to make the music "sound strong or weak". They are simply terms used to distinguish between rhythmic events. Most music has some variety of beats with syncopated rhythms to make things interesting.

The backbeat is where the classical terms got reversed in popular music! The backbeats are beats 2 and 4. Where the snare drum typically pops to push the rhythm forward.

[quote=dlwalke]You typically use downstrokes on both the down and up beats (that doesn't help) and upstrokes on the off-beats.

That does happen quite a bit. But I think it's more of a correlation than a technique principle. Sometimes it's better (more efficient or musical) to use the opposite, an upstrum on a downbeat, or a downstrum on an upbeat.

There is no rule that says you must start with downstrums on downbeats. It's just a matter of convenience in basic strumming patterns.

Hope that helps!

After looking at more sources on the net (including reputable ones like music schools and such, not just random people), I think the inconsistencies make some of these terms nearly useless unless you are communicating with people you know and you all agree in advance, implicitly or otherwise, on how you are defining your terms. Some sources say as I did (based on what I read previous to posting) that the 1rst and 3rd quarter notes (in 4/4) are the downbeats, others say as you do that 1, 2, 3, and 4 are each downbeats (and someone else said that all 4 are referred to as "on-beats"), several others say that only the first quarter note, the "1" is the downbeat. Also some inconsistency with off-beats. I haven't heard anyone say that the backbeat is anything other than 2 and 4 however (although I did see these referred to alternatively as the "up-beats"), so I am grateful for that!

If I were actually trying to communicate something to someone, I think that the safest approach would be to refer to the actual numbers or the "ands." Like, "toot that horn on the 1 and 3's" or "I'm gonna stroke this washboard on the 'ands'."


# 3
ChristopherSchlegel
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ChristopherSchlegel
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09/10/2021 12:56 pm
Originally Posted by: dlwalkeAfter looking at more sources on the net (including reputable ones like music schools and such, not just random people), I think the inconsistencies make some of these terms nearly useless unless you are communicating with people you know and you all agree in advance, implicitly or otherwise, on how you are defining your terms.[/quote]

Sure, but that's true of any set of concepts. :)

I'm sure there are people or sources that might claim differently. But in my working experience the list I gave you is the most commonly accepted & widely used.

[quote=dlwalke]If I were actually trying to communicate something to someone, I think that the safest approach would be to refer to the actual numbers or the "ands." Like, "toot that horn on the 1 and 3's" or "I'm gonna stroke this washboard on the 'ands'."

Absolutely. And, of course, using standard music notation makes it crystal clear & precise.


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Herman10
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Herman10
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09/10/2021 11:55 pm

Off beats are the ones played in between or against the rhythm, good example is " sexes on fire " intro guitar from kings of Leon, in modern rock music the accents lay on the second and fourth beat so you could call them the strong beats, however in reggae the accent lays on the 3rd beat making that the strong recognizable beat so it all depends on the kind of music to, my advise is don't worry about all of that, it will come naturally.


# 5

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