Just interested... almost zero progress?

Originally Posted by: steve ballard

I am 64 now - I am just interested to know how many folk are sitting in the shadows and have - like me - made almost zero progress in learning an instrument, despite the ambition, the passion to learn and a willingness to practice daily for at least one or two hours.

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I'm sorry for your frustration. I'm curious to know exactly what you are doing for those 1-2 hours of practice time.

Originally Posted by: steve ballard

Scuba diving is touted by all the major dive companies along the lines of "...diving is fun, everyone can learn to dive.."

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People that already possess the skills are bound to be more enthusiatic about it. And there's no way that, "We encourage you to dive even though you will probably fail at it like most people do" would get past their marketing people. Or that it would encourage many people to even try. :)[br]

Originally Posted by: steve ballard

Fender discovered something similar in their 2016 study: some eight out of ten beginners didn't make it through the first year of learning. That tells me legions.

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But it doesn't tell you how many people didn't learn to play because they physically can't versus people that choose not to practice enough to make it happen.

Originally Posted by: steve ballardI decided to try the on-line tuition out of curiosity last year: in retirement, I had already put in two serious years of one and a half hours a day, five days a week practice to make a final assault on the summit.

[quote=steve ballard]

After one year of this online course, I still have made no inroads.

Exactly what are you practicing? On what instrument? I've found many beginners that had a terrible guitar, or a terrible guitar setup that made it virtually impossible for them to make any progress. This obviously discouraged them.

I've handed many of these students one of my Strats with a properly cut nut, low action, light strings. And it's like magic. Because they have been struggling to make chord shapes or play beginning melodies, all of a sudden they can play what they've trying to play. And it was simply due to trying to do it on a guitar that helped instead of hindered their physical motion.

I can't guarantee that is the problem you are facing. And I am not implying that it is the problem that everyone is struggling with. Obviously, just buying a good Strat won't make you play if you don't put in the time & effort. But I have seen it make all the difference in the world to many individuals.

[quote=steve ballard]

The question remains: can everyone learn to play - the definition of "play" is a minefield which needs explanation on a scale not required here - an instrument as is popularly depicted on all teaching sites?

[p]I think the vast majority of people that want to strum basic chords in time to play simple versions of songs can in fact do so. Provided they have the right instrument & they put in the repeititious practice necessary to acquire the skills.

It takes every individual student a different amount of time and effort to gain the skills required to play guitar. But the same process has to happen for everyone, you have to go through enough repetitious practice until your hands and fingers aquire the strength and dexterity to make it an automatic motion.

Obviously I'm biased because I have those skills & enjoy using them! :) I want other people to enjoy playing the guitar. I've taught guitar for over 30 years. I've seen many different kinds of people try to learn. I've seen students succeed & fail.

I am willing to acknowlege the obvious truth that some people simply can't do the physical motions required to strum chords in time. That's hard, but I've had to break that news to some people. But I also know that some people choose not to put in the time & effort required.

It sounds like you've made a sincere effort. I admire that & your honesty about not being able to play yet to your desire. I don't want to insult you. And I can't honestly assess your skill or learning & practicing process without seeing it.

With that in mind, how are you practicing? How structured are your practice sessions? Are you repeating, focusing on, drilling chord or fingering patterns over & again? What kind of guitar are you using?

[quote=steve ballard]

If it did, I should be able to play like Robin Trower. ..or at least Bob Dylan.

As one extremely gifted and widely known guitarist once said said of Joe Bonamassa, "...I could practice for eight hours a day for 40 years and I could never play like that.."

Ha! :) Trower or Bonamassa skill level is a rare thing. Those are extreme examples. People that reach those levels of ability have their own set of learning, practicing & playing struggles to work through.

So I'm focusing on the vast majority of guitar learners that just want to play some open chords, move on to some barre chords, add a few single note lines to connect chords. Eventually strum these tools in time to play along with some of their favorite songs!

I think that is within most people's grasp as long as they have a playable guitar & are willing to put in the time & effort to make it happen.

Hope that helps!

Really great post Christopher. Your boundless enthusiasm, love of the instrument and desire to pass that onto others can't help but be invigorating.

Originally Posted by: manXcat

Really great post Christopher. Your boundless enthusiasm, love of the instrument and desire to pass that onto others can't help but be invigorating.

Thanks for reading & for your positive feedback. I sincerely appreciate it.

A fairly simple question; do you learn songs?

I read through the thread and didn't notice that. You may well be noodling through some songs but I'm not sure that I read that. I would suggest that anyone's playing skill will jump leaps and bounds just by learning songs. It's the goal anyway.

I've been playing for a long time and like your example, it was easier to learn and physically play than it probably should have been. I was young (16-ish, now 53) and didn't know any better.

But that's kinda the point; you're now old enough to understand so much about life. Obviously given your technical background, you're probably a pretty sharp cookie. My wife likes to refer to me as an 'over-thinker'. I sometimes wonder if that inhibits folks from just letting go and rolling with it.

This brings me back to just learning songs. GT here has a long list of great songs. It might be worth just learning some songs for a while. Skip all the theory and technical stuff and just learn and play music.

It will be a little work, as it always is, to learn songs. I've been playing for a good long time and have some solid skill. Still, learning a new song takes me time if what I'm learning is not currently part of my skillset.

My most recent example is learning what sounds to be a fairly simple song; Tommy James' Crystal Blue Persuasion. It is a simple song but, the main chord in the song is a little awkward for me. Just never played it. I've been able to play the guitar for 30+ years and a chord vexes me a little.

Point being; start off with what you can do. Don't overcomplicate what you think you should be able to do and start with what you can do. That does start with accepting that even though you're not where you want to be; you can play something. Start with that a build from there.

Using Guitar Tricks allows you to the ability to just work on things on your own. No instructor setting your expectation. You don't even need to set an expectation for yourself. Just play for the heck of it. That's the point anyway.

Food for thought.

...and this thread does remond me that I had always wanted to learn Day of the Eagle..there's a jam right there.

A lot of good feedback from others already, but I will add my two cents, Steve. It looks like you are experiencing difficulty in putting down your fretting hand and getting a good, clean chord. To you I say, "Welcome to the club!" It is maddening to see so many people out there who seem to have no problem playing chords, and yet knowing that you yourself are struggling with it. I feel your pain! Let me paste in a reply I made to another poster on this forum a few weeks ago. It might help you:

I also am finding it challenging to smoothly change from chord to chord. I was talking about this with a friend of mine just the other day. He teaches and plays guitar professionally. I said, "You know what's hard to do on a guitar? Changing cleanly from chord to chord." He replied, "Yes! Non-guitarists think it must be easy, because they see so many people doing it, but it isn't easy. I believe that it takes about a thousand times for it to get into your muscle memory."

You might try taking a chord change that's giving you trouble, and then get your metronome clicking, and just go back and forth. For example, you might put your metronome at 60 beats per minute and then play:

1

F (2-3-4)

G (2-3-4)

F (2-3-4)

G (2-3-4)

F (2-3-4)

G (2-3-4)

F (2-3-4)

G (2-3-4), etc.

Just strumming each chord on beat 1, and then letting it ring for counts 2, 3, and 4, and then playing the other chord, back and forth. It might be a good idea to use beat 4 to make your move to the next chord. At that tempo, you would be doing, what-- fifteen changes per minute? Do that for ten minutes and you'll have done 150 changes. Do that every day for a week and you'll have hit your 1,000 times. If 60 beats per minute is too fast, go slower; find the tempo at which you can nail it. The goal is not speed, but accuracy. The speed comes after you get the accuracy.

In any given tune you might have three or four chord changes that give you trouble. Well, make little exercises (as above) out of those spots, and within a couple of weeks you'll have that issue solved.

When I have a particularly troublesome chord, where some notes aren't sounding, I'll do what Justin suggests, which is: "strum--- arpeggiate--- strum," arpeggiating meaning to play each string individually, like a very slow strum, to make sure each note is ringing. If there's a note that goes "thub," fix it (Lisa explains very clearly how to do this) and go again.

You sound like you are a dedicated and serious student, Steve. Speaking as a music teacher myself (not guitar, though), I can say that the student who just CANNOT play a musical instrument despite regular, dedicated practice is rare, although they do exist. I don't know your situation, but maybe you are getting a lot of info from your teacher, and the information is coming in a lot faster than your muscle memory can take it in. In my own case, even though I practiced quite a lot in college, I felt the need after my bachelors degree to take a couple of years off to really practice tons. It seems like the brain is much quicker at taking in musical information than the body/muscle memory/eye-hand coordination, etc., is. At least, that's how it was for me.

Without malice, I have to say that I now don't quite believe you Steve. You pushed the plausible analogy button a smidge beyond extreme.

Starting to think ...troll?

Why? If you have to coordination to pilot even a Cessna and aptitude to put it all together sufficiently to demonstrate proficiency to an examiner to pass even the RPPL checkride, you have the coordination and nous to play guitar if you want to. [u]You blew your fair dinkum cred with this[/u].

You say you can't change chords? After how long? It's just not that difficult. Really, it's not.

I have AU and US Command ATPs among other credentials, and taught monkeys to fly or so it seemed at times. I know what's involved. If you truly have sufficient co-ordination and wits to 'drive' any aircraft, you can play guitar.

Just one year younger than you, I hadn't picked up the instrument in 45 years. Anything I had known I'd forgotten. November 2017 I bought my HSS Pacifica. Truly felt like I was ab initio in a strange new environment again. I couldn't remember anything more complex than an E, Em & A, Am. Mighta' had a vague recollection of G and D. 'Regardless I couldn't play a simple open G Em C D progression and felt clumsy that first week.

One year on, even I can play this exactly as it is performed here to the accompanying backing track so it sounds identical.

I am very average, and haven't pushed myself at all. In fact, I am on the fringe of feeling guilty because I am so lax and play songs far too much instead of disciplining myself to stick strictly to the coursework hypothetically optimizing personal lesson completion progress. But I don't mind because I am enjoying the begeezuz out of myself which is a parallel personal goal with a higher priority than to finish each course segment in min hours in order to achieve "listen to me shred" kudos status ASAP. If I live long enough, I know I'll get to shred. Kinda' surprised myself I haven't encountered a plateau yet. One will come, sometime. Have an idea where I might be in the next 18~24 months just plodding along no pressure. Of course, that's the secret. If doing it is fun, it's play, and you want to play lots because playing is fun.

That said, no not everyone can play guitar and yes marketing hype lies about how easy it is. But I'm with Christopher. There would be few that couldn't easily achieve cowboy chord strummer status within a year if they applied themselves. To sound like your favourite recording? That could take a lifetime.

Steve I sincirly apologase four ne trawma my unitentional spellign error may have inadvetnatly caused yu.

Steve, you've been given some good advice and views here. Your time is likely better spent giving this another try, with the help of the Guitar Tricks lessons, rather than continuing down the road you have been travelling on your last two posts.

After reading your posts.... I think you are right, you should just forget the guitar. Besides, it sounds like bar room fighting is more you style. Sorry music didn't cut it for you.

I just wanted jump in and say a few words...I just picked up the guitar again for the 3rd time...

first time I was 12, 2nd time I was 50 and now i'm 66...still trying to learn. I will say online and GT lessons have helped quite a bit...I've always just loved the guitar and as George Harrison once said " Even if I didn't play guitar...I'd have a Strat as a door stop, it's such a beautiful thing to look at! " I'm enjoying learning again, and will not be looking to get on stage, anytime soon!!![br]It's difficult, but look, I've been trying to learn GOLF for 30 years...now that's a challange!!![br]But have fun either way...life's too short...I was inspired to play again by going to see "A Star is born " and look what Bradley Cooper learned in such a short time!!! There's hope...

Play with others, join a band.

Steve how about slide guitar just a thought. Gary 207