hey...easy on the guy, lalimacefolle :-) I know how keepingitbrutal feels about 'discovering' something nice while playing the guitar. I didn't have a teacher, so I ran into the same situation. I had to go through all the theoy sites on the net to know something that might look so simple for those who were lucky enough to have someone to teach them the basics. I'm not saying I'm perfect..in fact I think I learn slowly, but that's not a problem as long as I'm learning in the end. The bottom line is: keep trying, keepingitbrutal..keep asking questions (Guitartricks is the best place to do so :-)), and everything is gonna be fine. A teacher is a must if you wanna be 'good', but if you're taking the guitar as a hobby, 'trial and error' method will be fine. Thanks guys :-)