Pain in left hand - any suggestions?

Hi,
Im fairly new and really enjoying the acoustic finger picking lessons and i'm distressed to find that im having pain in my left hand -- both in the front of my hand and in the thumb joint and muscle after practicing only a short time. Ive been at it 3 months and thought my hand would be getting stronger by now but instead it is getting worse. I have been doing stretches. Does anybody have any suggestions? I will be so sad if i have to quit!

Tracy, where do you place your thumb when you are playing? Is it in the same spot all the time? Is the type of pain your are experiencing just soreness, or does it actually feel like it weakens your arm/hand/joints where you feel you can't play properly?

What are you playing and how's the action set up. Are you fighting with your lessons and being tense. Review your lessons on proper posture. It's somewhere in Fundamentals 1.
Try doing some hot water soaking and ringing out a wash cloth several time. I twist the rolled up cloth several time in each direction. Also let your arms hang down at your side and shake them loose. This seems to help me, I hope it helps you. I usually have pain from not playing and it's in the thumb joint.
At my age, I get pains all over and it helps if I stay active.

Thanks for responding. I am at level 2B in Lisa's finger picking lessons. Enjoying it a lot and playing 1 hour a day - 2 or 3 a day on weekends. But my hand does not seem to be building up any strength and so i am still pressing hard on the back of the guitar with my thumb - causing both muscle and joint pain. It seems the pain in a small muscle or ligament in the front of the wrist is from stress as well. I am doing the stretches but will add the wash-cloth excercise suggested as well. Any other suggestion appreciated!

Hi again Tracy..
Sound like you need to be check out for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome... As soon as I read your reply I immediately talk to my wife. She had Carpal Tunnel Syndrome years ago. Also she said that the pain seem to have started in her thumb.
You may want to curtail any exercise until you have it checked by a Dr...
What you do for work could also contribute to the problem..
Good luck getting rid of the problem. Wife said after repair and therapy her wrist work great

I suggest you buy two rubber balls, one about the size of a tennis ball, another about the size of a ping pong ball. The Tennis ball sized one should be soft enough that your fingers can squish into it, yet not completely squish it.

Tennis ball size one goes in the palm of the left hand palm up. Use all your fingers to squeeze the ball a few times to warm up. Now just use fingers 2 and 4, for a few reps then fingers 1 and 3. Use 1 finger at a time, then 3 at a time switching combinations. The point here is to use the little muscles in your fingers that rarely get used, let alone in the odd combinations.

With the left hand pointing up, put the ping pong sized ball between two fingers, Don’t Squeeze !!, rather roll the ball away and back towards yourself without letting it fall. Start using fingers 1 and 2, then use 1 and 3, then 1 and 4. Now fingers 2 and 3, then 2 and 4 etc…

The simple exercises will build both strength and dexterity at the same time and can be done while doing other things as long as your left hand is free. Like watching TV, taking a walk, stuck in traffic……

I recommend guitarprinciples.com if you are experiencing any pain associated with playing the guitar -- the only detailed information missing on GT. Yeah, teachers cover a little of this and a little of that regarding pain. But, Jamie Andreas on GP has dealing with pain locked down. Jamie teaches how to hold the guitar correctly in relation to the body in minute detail to avoid pain and injury. Otherwise, GT has the rest locked down. ...(thinking out loud), if I were GT, I'd get Jamie Andreas on-board! Yeah, Jamie teaches songs too, but nothing to the extent of GT. GT and GP should join forces, for sure. GT wit' a little GP for ya -- the ultimate guitar lesson site!

Originally Posted by: tracy mcconkeyso i am still pressing hard on the back of the guitar with my thumb - causing both muscle and joint pain.

Ok, I've been through the whole deal... pain, then numbness, carpal tunnel, then recovery and back to playing. All the advice given so far is good, some things may help more than others.

First off, I don't think you have carpal tunnel syndrome. When you get that, its not a pain you can play through. You tend to get numb fingers, loss of dexterity, and severe pain with very specific types of movement. To me, it sounds like you're just getting normal pain associated with stressed muscles and joints. Before you go too nuts trying to figure out the problem, here are a couple of things to try that may help immediately:

1) Relax your fretting hand, don't press so hard. You can work on this by taking your thumb away from the fretboard, and then seeing if you can still fret notes and chords. So just go ahead, try to fret a note or chord, with your thumb totally out of there... start by making a gentle fist with your fretting hand (I assume its the left hand)... turn your hand towards you, so your palm is up (still making a fist). Now, open up your thumb like you're trying to hitch a ride. Now open up your fingers, and place them on the fretboard to fret a chord or notes, keeping your thumb relaxed in the same position away from the back of the fretboard. Try to see if you can fret cleanly... takes a little practice, but depending on your guitar, you should be able to do it... All you're trying to do here is see how little pressure you can use to still play the notes & chords properly... you don't need a death grip on the guitar. Go ahead and use your thumb for support now, but try to keep the pressure at a minimum.

2) Some players find it much more comfortable to hook their thumb around the fretboard, so that the back of the neck sits more in their palm rather than having their thumb placed directly on the back neck. Watch both electric and acoustic players on YouTube, and you'll see this is a very common way of holding the neck regardless of music style. Its not a bad idea. Your thumb was not meant to be pushed backwards, so putting a lot of pressure on it as you play can easily cause the kinds of problems you're having. When I'm playing guitar, most of the time I use the "palm/thumb wrap" position when I fretting, and then slide my thumb directly behind the fretboard into the more "classical" position only when I have to in order to play cleanly. So if I were strumming open chords for example, I would pretty much always be using the palm/thumb wrap technique. That, combined with using only as much pressure as needed to fret chords and notes cleanly, allows me to play comfortably for long periods of time.

Hope this helps!

Cal

thanks for all replies.
I will follow up on all advice.
I would be devastated if I had to stop playing.
....heading out to buy a ping pong ball and a tennis ball today!

Slipin Lizard's suggestions are really good. I also find that I rest the back of the neck between my thumb and forefinger unless I feel I have to put my thumb in the back. My left thumb can move back much farther than my right - probably from playing guitar all of these years. Everybody is built differently, so this varies.

Barre chords is where I consistently need to put my thumb in the back and if I play a lot of barre chords, my hand will fatigue.


Anyway...one other thing to look at is how you are positioning the guitar against your body. When you are first learning, you have a tendency to turn the fretboard toward your face so you can better see what your fretting hand is doing. If you are doing this, you are adding to the stress on your wrist by causing it to turn further away from you. The guitar should be parallel to your body. A way to force yourself to not turn the guitar toward you is to play standing up.

Chris S. has some good tutorials on proper body positioning and posture that may be helpful to you.

Good luck!

thanks again for all suggestions.
I will keep exercising my hand and yes, I think yes, I have been doing the "death grip." I found it easy to do chords with using my thumb as suggested, but it took a whole lot of arm strength.
As for the suggestion to check out Jamie on guitar principals, thanks, I did, but that wasn't so helpful. She talks on and on for a very long time without getting to a point, so think I will just stick with guitar tricks suggestions.

Originally Posted by: compart1Hi again Tracy..
Sound like you need to be check out for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome... As soon as I read your reply I immediately talk to my wife. She had Carpal Tunnel Syndrome years ago. Also she said that the pain seem to have started in her thumb.
You may want to curtail any exercise until you have it checked by a Dr...
What you do for work could also contribute to the problem..
Good luck getting rid of the problem. Wife said after repair and therapy her wrist work great

I have carpal tunnel in both hands and had the release surgery for it on my left hand (not very successful frankly). But carpal tunnel manifesta on the palm of the hand in the "tunnel" that forms when you touch your pinky with your thumb. That does not sound like what Tracy's experiencing. If the pain is more between the index and thumb there are a number of issues some of which have been mentioned. One is, is your guitar really right for you? I personally don't like a wide spacing like on a classical guitar or some necks on both electrics and acoustics which get too big toward the nut. If one kind of playing is bothering you, abandone it for a while--rest, try a different style and see if that same thing happens. I'm assuming you are female--most Tracys are, certain things can be tiring and taxing (barre chords). I suggest going into a couple of guitar shops and talking to even sales people--don't let them sell you but let them show you some guitars they think might help. You don't have to buy, but you'll gain some knowledge that way about if your instrument is set up right or if it's right for you. If you are intent on learning a chep guitar with nylon strings can help you at least learn the neck and chords. Then play the steel string for performances. There is lots of knowledge in guitar shops, and you can even start by saying I'm not here to buy today and just explain what you're experiencing. Good luck.

The amount of playing you're doing is unlikely to be the real cause, because it isn't enough to get a RSI - repetitive stress injury. I know because I have tendonitis in both arms and got it after 2 years of classical guitar at the music degree level (hard stuff), where I played 8 hours a day for 3 months straight at one point. Even then, the injury didn't flare until a year later.

In my case, other things (like heavy piano, doing pushups, etc.) also contributed to the "over-use" injury. You sound nowhere near "over-use".

Consider what else you do with your arms that is arm-intensive. You should see a physical therapist as well for both diagnosis, possible treatment, strengthening exercises, and proper stretches.

Hope you feel better soon.

Tracy,

Below is links to articles Wildwoman1313 posted on the site, she speaks directly to your question in the first thread. If you enjoy it, she has more on the site. A few should be in a must read section for beginners.

http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38306

Here is another Jewel !!

http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37902

There in the Newsletters section.

Excellent advice from the user who sent you to the music store(s). Try some other guitars and see if something "fits" you. I had an RSI from playing (years ago) that affected my elbow/forearm. Kept me off the guitar for 8-9 months. Believe me, you don't want THAT. Good luck.

Originally Posted by: fretsmithExcellent advice from the user who sent you to the music store(s). Try some other guitars and see if something "fits" you.

The question of proper technique should be addressed first... if you're simply pressing & gripping way too hard with your fretting hand, then a different guitar isn't going to fix the problem. From what you've described Tracy, I don't think its the guitar that is the problem. Learning to play with a relaxed fretting hand will more than likely clear up the issues you're having, and improve your playing ability as well.

Originally Posted by: tracy mcconkeyHi,
Im fairly new and really enjoying the acoustic finger picking lessons and i'm distressed to find that im having pain in my left hand -- both in the front of my hand and in the thumb joint and muscle after practicing only a short time. Ive been at it 3 months and thought my hand would be getting stronger by now but instead it is getting worse. I have been doing stretches. Does anybody have any suggestions? I will be so sad if i have to quit!

Hi there.

Yes I too experience pain in my left hand, however there is a reason for that. I am 56 and been playing guitar since I was 15. I put it down for a few years but took it back up full time about 2 years ago.

Since then I have noticed pain similar to what you describe. I have had it looked at and found out I have a condition called Peripheral Neuropathy which in the hand is more commonly known as Carpel Tunnel Syndrome.

Unfortunately I have been told there is little can be done short of surgery and I have to live with it.

To help minimize this pain I find that if I play more on a nylon string acoustic guitar or electric guitar, and particularly with acoustic if I use a capo it helps lower the action and makes it a lot easier to press the strings down, especially doing barre chords.

Try a nylon string or using a capo. All u have to do with a capo is put it on the first fret and tune your strings back a half tone. Easy peasy!

Hope that helps?

Dimitri - Australia

Could be the way your action is set up on your guitar, or it could be poor positioning.

Take a small ball (like one of those bouncy rubber ones that children play with and like to throw at walls and dogs and stuff), and sit it in the palm of your hand. Then try to hold the neck of your guitar with the ball still in the palm of your hand. That's pretty much the grip you should typically have while playing guitar. Your thumb should always be placed in the middle of the next and it'll usually be found facing your index and middle finger right in between them. Your hands take time to get used to it if you're new to playing as you know, but this should be much more comfortable if you weren't playing like this before. Hope this makes sense and hope it helps. Cheers!

thank you everyone for all the replies. I am impressed with how many helpful replies I got here! I have used almost all of your joint advice and I am happy to say I am getting much better.
I am still experiencing the sharp pain in front of my hand when I do barre chords so I have stopped those temporarily to see what happens....I seem to have no flexibilty in the front of my hand and can barely do the stretches.
...BUT the thumb joint pain has almost disapeared.
Here are some of the things from your advice that helped:
-I went back to fundamantals and hold the hand stretches taught here in GT for one minute
-I bought several rubber balls and keep them around the house and in my car and sqeeze them often.
-still working on relaxing my death grip on the guitar.
-went to a physio and got a few ultra sound treatments to reduce inflamation.
....planning on checking out new guitars as per other advice from you.
I truly thank everyone for the help and advice.
cheers,
tracy