First time jamming

Originally Posted by: maggiorI discovered Robin Trower a few years ago from a book of guitar licks. Bridge of Sighs is an awesome album and the title song is awesome. His later stuff from the 80's onward didn't really do it for me.

As far as his sound goes, I recall finding a youtube video where he discusses his rig. Getting his sound (equipment-wise) should be relatively easy since he doesn't change it up much, if at all. From the way he talked, he wasn't much of a gearhead. He came about a sound that he liked and stuck with it.

I'll see if I can find a Rig Rundown with Robin Trower. I watched one yesterday with DJ Ashba, one of the current guitarists in Guns N' Roses, because I love the sound he uses in his solos during concerts, but he revealed he uses a Rack for getting his sound properly, and I have no clue how those work. But I think that Robin Trower's sound in the linked video is quite similar, in a good way, even though the two guitarists play different genres (Trower sounded Blues-Rock-like, DJ Ashba plays Hard Rock and Metal), so it might be worth seeing if I can find a Rig Rundown with Trower. If nothing else, it might give me some good ideas for creating my own sound.

What I'd actually prefer would be some sort of mix between the sound used by Trower in the linked video, and the sound used by DJ Ashba in his "Ballad Of Death"-solo (one of my favorite fully-instrumental pieces by the way). I think it could sound pretty cool.

Kasperow,

If you had a big old Marshall you would not need an overdrive, those peddles where originally built so people with lesser amps could try to copy the Marshall sound or other big real amps. The peddle you’re looking for, to get that wave or ocean swoosh would be a phaser. When I bought mine years ago they were called phase shifters. If you have a choice, try a few of them before you buy.

If I was trying to get the “”tone” I would start with my guitar on the treble pick up. Thinking the amp dials use 1 to 10, Treble at 5, Mid at 7 Bass at 9. Reverb about 7. Amp set to do it’s best to sound like a Marshall. I think he used more bass, than most people used back then. Starting with your guitar pickups, start making small changes looking for the tone.

It appears that a Fuzz-pedal would go a long way towards.getting the tone or sound I want, since both Robin Trower and DJ Ashba, whose tone I've more or less fallen in love with, use a Fuzz-pedal for their distorted parts, at least according to the videos I've found where they talk about their gear. Aside from that, they also both use a Marshall Tube-Amp, a Wah pedal and a Chorus/Flanger/Phaser of some sort (DJ Ashba uses a Chorus for his Les Pauls, not quite sure about Trower, but haghj500 suggested a Phaser, which would make sense to me, since single-coil pickups are a bit weaker than humbuckers, and require more gain to sound heavy). I'll have to try some of those effects when I get the chance, in order to see what works for me.

Here's the video I had watch about a year ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Hwe24t0rc

I'm at work, so I can't watch it. He goes over his current rig, but as I recall, his rig is the same now as it was back "in the day".

I also found a you tube instructional video on playing the opening parts of Bridge of Sighs - a pretty cool blues riff. He definitely takes a minimalistic approach, but it is awesome in its simplicity!! Strip away the effects pedals, and it still sounds awesome!

Originally Posted by: maggiorHere's the video I had watch about a year ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Hwe24t0rc

I'm at work, so I can't watch it. He goes over his current rig, but as I recall, his rig is the same now as it was back "in the day".[/QUOTE]
That's what an article I've read on Gibson.com says too, so it must be true...

[QUOTE=maggior]I also found a you tube instructional video on playing the opening parts of Bridge of Sighs - a pretty cool blues riff. He definitely takes a minimalistic approach, but it is awesome in its simplicity!! Strip away the effects pedals, and it still sounds awesome!

This, I can only agree with. Even though I'm not that much of a Blues-listener, I'm still tempted to try and learn Bridge of Sighs, simply because it's a great song, regardless of genre. And it seems Robin Trower and I have a bit more in common than I had thought, purely style-wise. We both use a minimalist approach as you call it. Then again, nobody ever said that a lot of fast-played notes makes a riff great. Same goes for solos, for that matter. I'd rather have 3 or 4 truly great-sounding notes than 64 random notes played within a very short amount of time. Smoke On The Water and La Grange have some outright timeless riffs with only a few notes played in a great way.

Kasperow,

This is Trower at his prime in 1974, playing the same song, same sound. The band is playing live on a TV show, no retakes or added tracks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tLsFsGxLmE

Youtube has a few good video's worth watching.

Hope you enjoy.

I've just listened to a few more of Trower's songs on Youtube, and I must say... Some of his songs have some pretty nice solos and riffs. "The Turning", for example, has a nice simple outro that lasts for little over two minutes. "I Can't Wait Much Longer" is a generally nice song with a great solo to it... I'm surprised I haven't seen any Trower-songs on the Song-List yet... Thanks for showing me the man. Great guitarist, great tone, great songs, just the right mix between upbeat and calm songs.

Kasperow,

Your welcome.

Well, just had a second jam with the band, and while I'm slowly starting to get there to a level where I'm ready to play out, which they offered an opportunity to do. They'll be going to a venue on a night where multiple band play a few songs, and as it looks right now, I'll be able to play the rhythm for two of their songs by then, possibly more if we're lucky. My only problems are that they kind of dictate the tone-settings (even though I like some slightly different settings), and they only use the standard Tuning, while I like to use others, such as tuning all strings down a half-step (because lots of great Rock Guitarists do it). I may just be picky, but I'd honestly rather search long for a truly great band, than just go with the first offer. Or maybe, once I get the money to afford a better Amp, and get some experience, I might even try going solo and just finding bands to play with on-stage (sort of what Slash has done, only without already being famous).

Kasperow,

Who is joining who? They already have a sound their looking for. You’re going to a battle of the bands type of thing, right? It seems, if you want to experience this offer, you for now, should be making them happy. Standing around between songs at jams, play some of your stuff see if it catches on.

Right now its about the next gig for them, they think you can make them sound better if you add what they are looking for. Do you want to do that?

They are already paying you a complement offering to let you play, meet them halfway and play their tone......... for now.

Originally Posted by: haghj500Kasperow,

Who is joining who? They already have a sound their looking for. You’re going to a battle of the bands type of thing, right? It seems, if you want to experience this offer, you for now, should be making them happy. Standing around between songs at jams, play some of your stuff see if it catches on.

Right now its about the next gig for them, they think you can make them sound better if you add what they are looking for. Do you want to do that?

They are already paying you a complement offering to let you play, meet them halfway and play their tone......... for now.

Well, even if I decide not to stay with them for a long time, it'll still give me some experience, maybe even with performing for strangers, so I'll roll with it for now...

Originally Posted by: KasperowWell, even if I decide not to stay with them for a long time, it'll still give me some experience, maybe even with performing for strangers, so I'll roll with it for now...

That certainly makes sense. As the new guy and the second guitarist, you really should just roll with it. Having been doing this a little bit, they may know some things you aren't aware of yet. Try it their way and if you find it isn't working for some reason, explaing to them why it isn't working for you and have some suggestions ready.

Regarding tone - I have a preference for what I like my tone to sound like when I'm practicing. I perfer a mellow sound with the treble cut back and using my neck pickup. It surprises me when I'm playing with some backing and jam tracks that a more trebly sound works better and I find myself cranking up the treble and moving to my bridge pickup.

Originally Posted by: maggiorThat certainly makes sense. As the new guy and the second guitarist, you really should just roll with it. Having been doing this a little bit, they may know some things you aren't aware of yet. Try it their way and if you find it isn't working for some reason, explaing to them why it isn't working for you and have some suggestions ready.[/QUOTE]
That might be true, but it might also not be the case. I noticed something quite... disappointing, honestly, last night while jamming with them. They use the same key in all their songs, many of them even the same chord progression just with different rhythms, and I couldn't hear any kind of legato in the solos (no bends, no vibrato, no hammer-on/pull-off/trills, only a few slides). Technique-wise, I'd say they stilll have some way to go. When I improvise at home, I usually use lots of sustained notes and legato, with a more or less clean tone (sometimes a bit of distortion/overdrive just to give it more of a rock-sound), because I like the sound, but they just run with lots of fast notes and no legato in their solos, with a very muddy tone with some overdrive on top. Huge difference in styles here... And their other guitarist has been playing for 8 years and has taken lessons from a personal teacher. I've played for 1 year and I only take online lessons, and I use more legato in my playng than the other guy...

[QUOTE=maggior]Regarding tone - I have a preference for what I like my tone to sound like when I'm practicing. I perfer a mellow sound with the treble cut back and using my neck pickup. It surprises me when I'm playing with some backing and jam tracks that a more trebly sound works better and I find myself cranking up the treble and moving to my bridge pickup.

I normally just practise with a semi-clean tone and add a bit of distortion/overdrive with pedals, then change Treble and Bass so it sounds just a bit edgy, then choose whatever pickup fits best for what I want to play. Sometimes, though, I play with other settings, if I'm trying to learn some famous songs, because I want it to sound right, but still a bit different.

Wise man!

I have great memories of the 1st time we played. If you go, you will learn more than you can guess at this time.

Learn your parts well, you do not want to be the weakest player standing on stage. You will remember this for the rest of your life also.

Originally Posted by: haghj500Wise man!

I have great memories of the 1st time we played. If you go, you will learn more than you can guess at this time.

Learn your parts well, you do not want to be the weakest player standing on stage. You will remember this for the rest of your life also.

I've already learned a few things, just by jamming with the band twice. First off, I've learned that simply "being in a band" isn't the same as "being a member of a band". Huge difference there. Being a member implies that you have some freedom to experiment with your own tone and gear. Simply being in a band doesn't.

Secondly, learning the rhythm parts for one of band's own songs has helped me learn to play the intro to "Nightrain" by Guns N' Roses, because Slash's parts seem so rediculously easy compared to the other song... So that's good. Before jamming with the band, I just thought the intro to "Nightrain" looked near impossible. Now it seems almost as easy as "Smoke On The Water". Almost being the keyword here...

And thirdly, being in a band with conflicting interests is not the best option, if other options are available. Our styles are vastly different, and so are the bands we mainly listen to. Actually, the only common denominator is that both they and I want to get out there and perform on-stage and make a bit of money that way. I'm just not 100% convinced that this band is the right one for me. Still, I'll roll with it for a bit longer to see how things turn out.

Originally Posted by: KasperowAnd thirdly, being in a band with conflicting interests is not the best option, if other options are available. Our styles are vastly different, and so are the bands we mainly listen to. Actually, the only common denominator is that both they and I want to get out there and perform on-stage and make a bit of money that way. I'm just not 100% convinced that this band is the right one for me. Still, I'll roll with it for a bit longer to see how things turn out.

Sounds like this will likely be a stepping stone for you - you gotta start someplace though, right? You've got some ambition and some goals - all good stuff.

Something you shouldn't lose sight of is playing is playing, even if it is in a style you aren't totally into. I learned first hand that *any* playing experience is very advantageous. I'm a rock kind a guy and my guitar idols are guys like Alex Lifeson, David Gilmour, Joe Satriani, Al DiMeola, etc. Since I started playing over 30 years ago, I wanted to lean how to play killer solos and dreamed of owning a Fender Strat one day. In high school I played in a garage band that I had to leave before they made it out of the garage. We played Beatles, The Who, Rolling Stones, The Police... Probably not exactly the kind of guy that would aspire to playing acoustic guitar in a church you might think.

10 years ago I did just that. My wife sang in it, so it was something for us to do together. They also needed a guitar player. As far as something to advance my playing, I didn't give it a thought - I figured it would be easy, just strumming some chords, right? I can do that with my eyes closed.

Well not really. It was humbling bordering on humiliating that at the first practice I could not keep up with the chord changes. I knew the chords, but couldn't get the changes down right or my strumming pattern to fit.

To make a long story short, I had to practice *a lot*, mostly at home with recordings I made. And I learned soooo much! My sense of rythm improved and I learned how to fit in with the other musicians. I also learned how to listen to what others were playing an incoporate some of it into mine. It wasn't improvisation per se, but I would add things I heard on the piano that was not written in my guitar book. I devloped my ear for music.

So I didn't learn how to play any kick ass solos or face melting soling techniques. However, my playing advanced in other ways that have helped me in learning areas of greater interest. It was a lot of fun too.

Originally Posted by: maggiorSomething you shouldn't lose sight of is playing is playing, even if it is in a style you aren't totally into.

That's true. And learning to play with any band will still make me more comfortable with playing with other people, which is necessary when you jam with people. The main thing that bugs me, I think, is their tone and the simplicity of their songs. I really love both that simple, raw tone used by GNR (like the beginning of the second half of Rocket Queen or the solos in November Rain, which I'm trying to learn on my own), yet at the same time, I also like the tone used by Robin Trower in any of his music, because I find it pleasant to listen to his music. The band I play with just uses a Tube Amp cranked to full volume, no gain, and a lot of bass in the tone, contrasting with the Treble-ish tone GNR uses. Still, if I stick around for a while, I'm bound to pick up a few good ideas (or find another band at that upcoming multiple-band-gig, although that would probably be considered rude).

Originally Posted by: KasperowAnd their other guitarist has been playing for 8 years and has taken lessons from a personal teacher. I've played for 1 year and I only take online lessons, and I use more legato in my playng than the other guy...

Be careful...because he doesn't use legato doesn't mean he's a less capable player than you. Certainly you guys play in a different style. There are very accopmlished players that don't use legato at all and view it as a way of cheating. Al DiMeola is famous for this view. Then you have guys like Frank Gambale whose record label is called Legato! Yes, he's a big fan of playing legato. They both shred, but in different styles.

Do these guys in the band have punk leanings?

Rereading again what you wrote, I think you get it - make the best of this opportunity with the understanding that it's likely to be short term. Get out of it what you can.

Originally Posted by: maggiorBe careful...because he doesn't use legato doesn't mean he's a less capable player than you. Certainly you guys play in a different style. There are very accopmlished players that don't use legato at all and view it as a way of cheating. Al DiMeola is famous for this view. Then you have guys like Frank Gambale whose record label is called Legato! Yes, he's a big fan of playing legato. They both shred, but in different styles.

Do these guys in the band have punk leanings?

Rereading again what you wrote, I think you get it - make the best of this opportunity with the understanding that it's likely to be short term. Get out of it what you can.

That's probably true. I don't really know those two guys you mention, but I'll check them out on YouTube tomorrow.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "punk leanings", since I don't exactly listen to punk, so I don't know what to look out for there.

I must admit, though, when I first started playing a year ago, I thought it would take at least half a decade to get to where I am today. My rate of progress is better than I had even hoped it would be :)

Kasperow,

You're learning faster than I had guessed.

It does not sound like you will stay with them. It is Hard to get 4 or 5 guys (people) that get a long, like the same music and tone . That's why its said to be kind of magic when it happens.

Going to make new contacts after only two jams, is not rude. Its good business. It kind of like job hunting, you need to get your resume out there.

Whether you like what you’re playing or not, play it the best you can. Make your resume worth remembering.