correct notation of scale degrees..?

Every time I learn a chord I write it out an index card

and I've taken to breaking down the formula of the scale degrees

I was just doing the minor (barre; 6 strings) shape and I wrote it down like this:

I, V, I, mIII, V, I

is that the right way to write a minor third?

or is it bIII?

or are you supposed to just write it as III and remember that because it's minor chord then the III is minor?

one of the latter ways (mIII or bIII) makes more sense to me; and is helping me to grasp these various formulas and how they are interrelate with one another.
I started out writing it as bIII then I found my self just abbreviating "minor III" to mIII

...

I just realized that a minor chord in a progression is built off the relative minor scale relative to the Major key I'm in;
or vice versa if it's a minor key song

it's funny how stuff is right in front of your face but doesn't actually occur to you

Originally Posted by: WhuneEvery time I learn a chord I write it out an index card...[/quote]
Serious organization skills there. :)
[QUOTE=Whune]I was just doing the minor (barre; 6 strings) shape and I wrote it down like this:

I, V, I, mIII, V, I

First, don't use Roman Numerals to indicate individual notes in a scale or chord. Use standard ordinal numbers with the terms major & minor. So, your minor barre chord is:

1st, 5th, 1st, minor 3rd, 5th, first.

As opposed to a major chord:

1st, 5th, 1st, major 3rd, 5th, first.


Yes, the minor 3rd is "flatted" compared to the major 3rd. So, those terms are interchangeable. But it helps to use certain terms only for certain purposes.

We typically reserve Roman Numerals for chord progressions.

The correct way to indicate all major chords in a chord progression is using an upper case Roman Numeral. All minor chords are indicated using a lower case Roman Numeral.

You only use the flat sign (lower case "b") when the root note is one fret down from it's normal position in the scale chord progression.

So, the complete major scale harmonization is:

I - ii - iii - IV - V - vi - vii dim

("dim" means "diminished" and is also indicated by using a little superscript circle after the Roman Numeral).

The complete minor scale harmonization is:

i - ii dim - III - iv - v - VI - VII

If you are playing in the key of C, then the chord built on the 3rd is typically a minor chord built on E: E minor, iii in C major.

But, i you are in C and decide to play an E-flat minor, then you indicate that with a flat sign. You've altered the normal scale degree we build a chord on: E-flat minor, biii in C major.

Or if you build a major chord on the E instead of a minor, then use upper case Roman: E major, III in C major.

Finally, is you alter both the scale degree and the chord quality, then you get: E-flat major, bIII in C major.

Make sense?

This page on MusicTheory.net has a nifty tutorial illustrating all this:

http://www.musictheory.net/lessons/44

So what you're saying is...

I'm going to have to re-write-out all my chord cards.

:p

that's ok: I was thinking about doing that anyway with the inclusion of standard notation

...

This is starting to make sense why it's all done that way;
but I'd really taken to using roman numerals

It's so much more visually efficient to write "mIII" as opposed to "minor 3rd"
(Not to mention maintains as much uniform space as possible: "I" and "mIII" are much closer in space consideration than "1st" and "minor 3rd")

Is it permissible to just write it as "1" and "m3" or - less desirably - "1st" and "m3rd"?
That's closer at least than "minor 3rd"

...

I'm trying desperately to find a way to notate my scale degrees as concisely as possible.

I came across this document in web search
( http://www.tierceron.com/misc/mus116/m116e01.pdf )
the 1 and etc with "a little hat" seems simple enough; but there's various things about the notation that are very confusing to me
(like the fact that ANY of the scale degrees are sharped, let alone the 1st one)
and the Xs on the accompanying staff notation are alien to me as well.

Originally Posted by: WhuneSo what you're saying is...[/quote]
No pain, no gain. :p

Originally Posted by: Whune
Is it permissible to just write it as "1" and "m3" or - less desirably - "1st" and "m3rd"?

Sure, how about upper case M for major & lower case for minor:

major 3rd = M3 or just 3.
minor 3rd = m3 or just b3 ("flat 3rd").

Ultimately, it is, of course, okay to write it anyway you want. But, there are some established standards that do make sense, are efficient, consistent and greatly help in organization & communication.
[QUOTE=Whune]I came across this document in web search
( http://www.tierceron.com/misc/mus116/m116e01.pdf )
the 1 and etc with "a little hat" seems simple enough; but there's various things about the notation that are very confusing to me
(like the fact that ANY of the scale degrees are sharped, let alone the 1st one)
and the Xs on the accompanying staff notation are alien to me as well.

The little hat is a circumflex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumflex

It's a fairly standard thing I've seen in academic books. But it doesn't translate well in web communication. :) That's why I typically just say or write "major 3rd" or "M3". After all, that's what it actual is: the third degree of the major scale. If it helps your note card writing, then go for it!

Sharp always means up one half-step or up one fret.
Flat always means down one half-step or down one fret.

So, it may seem confusing, but you can have a sharp 1st scale degree. It simply means "up one fret from the root note". The X symbol means "double sharp". So, that means "two frets up".

Hope this helps.