Where to start?? (How to become great at guitar?)

My problem with GT is always where to start and how to make the most of my practice time.. Working on Guitar Fundamentals 2 right now.. How do you all make the most of this site?? I'm sure this question has been around the block a hundred times. Been at it about 5 years play mostly open position chords to my favorite songs and not really progressing.
I wish someone could lay out the footprint for what it takes step by step to master guitar.. Where do you start, how does it end and how do you get there?? That's the million dollar question right? I don't want to just play, I want to know what I'm playing and why I'm playing it... Hope you all have some answers.. :)
Thanks,
Kurt

Originally Posted by: K-LogWhere do you start, how does it end and how do you get there?? That's the million dollar question right?

Pick up a guitar, it never ends, and practice.
That'll be 1 million dollars :cool:

I responded to your general post, so check that out... I think you'll get a real "bang for your buck" from many of the lessons here.

Here's some advice though:

-don't over-analyze... learn as much theory as you want, but no one can tell you what's in your heart to play... its a bit like martial arts... you can train all you want, but you can't rehearse real combat, it has to be instinctive. So by all means, yes, learn theory, and practice practice, but take time out to just play and have FUN!

-as Steve Vai said, find what excites you and go for it! There are plenty of great guitarists that don't B-flat from A-sharp... uh.. ok, so that's not the best example, but you know what I mean! If getting technical motivates you to play some great music on your guitar, then let that feed you and go with it... but don't be afraid to just experiment, and let the "why" go for the moment. I've often come up with something I really liked by just experimenting, and then sort of "reversed engineered" the theory to figure out just what I'm doing, which opens the door to more possibilities.

-set some clear goals for yourself... what kind of guitar to you want to play? Saying "everything" isn't an answer.. there's just so much out there to learn, you can never "master" guitar... I saw a recent interview with Neal Schon (Journey) and he said that watching his son made him think about practicing some more to get his chops up... you have got to be kidding? Just set some goals for yourself, like picking something you'd like to be able to play PERFECTLY and then go for that... I had a goal of playing the theme song "Its Never Too Late" from Lisa McCormick's lessons, and it was both fun and fairly easy to get to that level, even though I didn't know any fingerpicking to start (of course, I went through her lessons from the start).

-make sure you have some backing tracks or something that you can jam along with. Not only is it good practice, its fun & rewarding and it will make you a better player. I have a Boss DR-880 that I love using, but you can find plenty of free backing songs to jam with on-line. Line Six's "Guitar Port" is pretty cool too.. and only $99.

Good luck man, and keep us posted as to how you're doing.

You need to start with your MINDSET.

It all starts there... Without a REAL BURNING DESIRE TO GROW and become an exceptional guitar player, it won't happen.

Absorb everything you can about guitar playing
Study EVERY resource you find about guitar playing
Practice ALL THE TIME (even when you're not holding a guitar)
Learn the difference between PLAYING GUITAR and PRACTICING GUITAR
Talk to everyone you know about guitar playing
Find other guitar players
SEARCH FOR MORE GUITAR PLAYING RESOURCES (not just this website)
The more you know, the faster you willl grow
Write songs EVERY DAY (even if you thik you can't)
Don't think you can't, KNOW YOU CAN. (everyone else can do it too)

You can find lots of additional free resources at my website if you want.

EDIT: Oh yeah, .... GET A GUITAR TEACHER. That's STEP 1. No matter WHAT you do, you need a teacher. They will help you faaaaaar more than any resource online... A good teacher will also help you find more free resources online. :) AND he'll help you understand those resources much easier and faster and better than if you were on your own.

Originally Posted by: Matteo Miller
You can find lots of additional free resources at my website if you want.

The production & instructional quality of your sample video lesson on "Chord Changes" is zero... you're actually teaching that poor guy the exact wrong way to learn chord changes.

K-log, you'll find lots of good resources here on this site... there are bottom feeders like this guy that use the forum as a way to promote their own sites. The real members here will happily steer you towards good texts, other sites with good info (watch some of the free lessons that Steve Vai offers... directly contradicts the method that buddy here is using in his free lesson).. all you have to do is ask. There's lots of sincere members that come on this site for no other reason that to help keep the stoke going for guys like you (and me) learning guitar.

I'd actually recommend NOT trying to find a guitar teacher at this point. Reason why? Guitar teachers are usually expensive... probably about a month of quality private lessons would cost you the same amount as an entire year membership for this site. Also, with video lessons, you can re-watch a lesson any time and as many times as you want... no going home and then wondering "now how did that riff go?". You can also progress at your own pace... guitar teachers usually want you to come every week, but what if you're not ready for your next lesson?

A couple of concrete suggestions for you.. first, DO check out the fingerpicking lessons if you don't know how to fingerpick. Reason why is I think they will give you a good feel on just how productive on-line lessons (good ones!) can be. Secondly, for your "wanting to understand" checkout a book called "The Fretboard Workbook":

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Fretboard-Workbook-Barrett-Tagliarino/dp/0634049011/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323712707&sr=8-1

Its a really great workbook that will help you tremendously with understanding the how and why of scales, chords etc. If there is something your specifically after, just ask in the forum and someone will try to help you out.

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardThe production & instructional quality of your sample video lesson on "Chord Changes" is zero... you're actually teaching that poor guy the exact wrong way to learn chord changes.

You think so? I've used those methods to learn any chord change within minutes ever since the day I had to switch hands on my guitar. I learned the guitar twice, and the second time around, I was on steroids, precisely because I have so many different techniques of how to super-speed my guitar playing.

Anyway, why don't YOU explain how to change chord fluidly if you like? That way I can get more feedback, which could help to improve my video, if you're right. "Exact wrong way" doesn't help much, and doesn't hold much power anyway. It's just an attack which has no backing proof.

K-log, you'll find lots of good resources here on this site... there are bottom feeders like this guy that use the forum as a way to promote their own sites. The real members here will happily steer you towards good texts, other sites with good info (watch some of the free lessons that Steve Vai offers... directly contradicts the method that buddy here is using in his free lesson).. all you have to do is ask. There's lots of sincere members that come on this site for no other reason that to help keep the stoke going for guys like you (and me) learning guitar.

I haven't found a Steve Vai video about chord transitions, do you think you could link me to one?

I'd actually recommend NOT trying to find a guitar teacher at this point. Reason why? Guitar teachers are usually expensive... probably about a month of quality private lessons would cost you the same amount as an entire year membership for this site. Also, with video lessons, you can re-watch a lesson any time and as many times as you want... no going home and then wondering "now how did that riff go?". You can also progress at your own pace... guitar teachers usually want you to come every week, but what if you're not ready for your next lesson?

If you want to make fast progress, you need to spend money. :) I didn't say it was going to be cheap!

Btw, a great guitar teacher WILL record your private lesson for you. I do that all the time, and it produces great results (when the student listens back to it).

Let's say you want to play baseball. You gonna go online looking for tips and tricks and go off to your backyard and throw the ball at a fence all day long?

OR.... you gonna go out, and join a team, and go 2-3 times a week to practice along with a game every weekend?

Once a week is barely any time at all. I would recommend going to a teacher THREE TIMES per week!!! Why not? We do it in sports without questioning.

I guarantee if it's a good teacher, you WILL be ready for the next lesson, not because you'll be learning new information, but because he will TRAIN you to use the skills you already have. It will help to let the information sink in better. There are plenty of other reasons why going multiple times a week to see a teacher is a great idea.

Originally Posted by: Matteo Miller "Exact wrong way" doesn't help much, and doesn't hold much power anyway. It's just an attack which has no backing proof.

When learning guitar, don't practice mistakes. Enough proof for you?

Guys, let's please not hijack Kurt's thread.

RE:

Originally Posted by: K-Log
I wish someone could lay out the footprint for what it takes step by step to master guitar.. Where do you start, how does it end and how do you get there??
Thanks,
Kurt

That's what the core learning system is. We took several years to create it, we argued over it, we re-did parts, we focused on making sure you have everything you need.

The intent is for you to be able to do what each tutorial teaches you to do, before you move on. Please make sure you do that. Take the time to hang out in this beginner stage, it will pay off later.

It sounds like you have been in kind of a rut, playing songs you know over and over. To get better, you'll want to pay attention to the things in the lessons that feel awkward. Those are the things you don't know how to do. It is tempting to just play them the way you already know how, but you won't learn as much. Awkward = learning.

Oh, and have fun with it, it's just guitar.


Hope that helps.

Jon

Wow guys lot's of great info and advice that I will surely look into. Yes I am kind of stuck in a rut and trying to decide on a practice routine or schedule seems like another daunting task... I love to play but want to progress so it takes more than hammering out a chorded rhythm. :) Thanks for the suggestions Slipin Lizard, Matteo Miller, and Jon Broderick.. I will be patient with Guitar Fundamentals II making sure I can play each piece, I like the advice of getting a teacher and working with other guitarists it does help to make it all make sense quicker.. I'll check into the backing tracks etc to help with my playing now and finger picking is another skill I could perfect along with base note strumming...
Thanks again, now a practice routine you would like to share that helps you progress??

Originally Posted by: Slipin LizardWhen learning guitar, don't practice mistakes. Enough proof for you?

Actually, SOMETIMES (and i stress this), it doesn't matter whether you practice mistakes!

For example, when you are first learning something, it's going to be extremely difficult to practice it PERFECT, so you need to take it one step at a time. First focus on the EASIEST thing to get down right. Then, you move on to another aspect of that thing, and then another, then another. At the end, you will have mastered it and be able to execute it perfectly.

For example, when changing chords, there are 4 basic parts to it:

1. Landing with all fingers in the right place.
2. Developing the muscles to move your hand from one part of the fretboard to the other.
3. Playing each string clearly.
4. Changing chords in time.

Your mind would explode if you try to master all of those things at the same time, so I gave multiple strategies so you could target a specific piece at a time. Once you master one easy piece, you build confidence so you can feel better about moving to the next step. If you try to master everything at once, chances are it will be too difficult and you will feel like a failure. So you take it step by step. And build momentum from there.

The "speed training" part I mentioned really does work. All of the things I mentioned works. I've tested it over and over again with different students. BUT ONLY IF THEY ALSO PRACTICE "SQUEEZE AND HOVER"

Squeeze and Hover focuses on the slow, perfect transition between one chord to the next. THEN, there's also the part where you have to SPEED UP that transition. Going really fast here will improve your BRAIN'S POWER to keep up with your hand. That is the specific goal of that exercise.

Again, SOMETIMES it doesn't matter if you make mistakes. Sometimes the goal isn't to build perfect technique, but rather build the mental part so your mind can keep up with your fingers.

Originally Posted by: K-Log
Thanks again, now a practice routine you would like to share that helps you progress??

About this, there is no practice routine we can give you without knowing several things: your goals, your current challenges, your skill level in all areas of music, and other things such as how much you enjoy a particular way of learning over another.

My practice schedule changes every day. I use this really great guitar practice generator that will take everything I said into account. You might want to check it out: http://tomhess.net/PracticeGenerator.aspx

Originally Posted by: Matteo MillerActually, SOMETIMES (and i stress this), it doesn't matter whether you practice mistakes!

For the record, I don't agree, but in the interest of conforming with Jon's wishes, I will not debate with you here.

K-Log, I do agree with what Matteo Miller is saying in his latest post, particularly about goals... that's what I was trying to allude to earlier when talking about whether or not to take lessons. Lessons from a good teacher are invaluable, but they also can be expensive and a waste of time, even with a good instructor. Your teacher can only help you achieve the goals you've set for yourself, if, in fact, you have actually set concrete goals. You're talking about "mastering guitar" and being a "great guitar player"... well, this is the reality:

1) you will never "master" guitar... you may be very skilled and fluid in certain aspects of playing guitar, but there is no guitarist out there who is a "master" at all styles, all techniques. You're probably familiar with some rock guitar gods, but check out this video if you haven't heard of Michael Hedges before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4P9mmZyGb4s&feature=related
Just shows you a completely different direction that you can take guitar, and you could spend a lifetime just trying to perfect & master this style.

2) no matter how good or how "great" you become, someone will always think you, well, suck to put it frankly... I know that sounds awful but its true.. even Eddie Van Halen has his critics. The key here is that you have to be happy with what you play. The act of picking up the guitar, with no one but you to hear it has to be enjoyable and fulfilling. If its not, you're likely to find it a frustrating process. Its that inner enjoyment and satisfaction that will silence the critics for you. No matter what you play, it won't be someone's cup of tea, but if like it, or better yet, love it, then that's all that matters. This doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to improve... on the contrary, finding a style of play that really feeds you and gets you going is the perfect motivator to get you wanting to practice and learn more. But there is no magic "secret" to guitar... there is no one moment when you'll feel like "that's it! I've mastered guitar and now feel qualified to play!". I knew a guy who knew all his modes... so that meant Major, Minor and all the diatonic scales (Dorian, Lydian etc... ) he could play them all. But he couldn't solo worth beans... he was super techy.. but put him with a bass player and a drummer, hit up a riff and he was just clueless... he had no sense of style, and no imagination to come up with his own ideas. Then there's guys like Kurt Cobain.. technically, not a "great" player... but he sure came up with some great guitar riffs.

Sorry for the long winded post... but you need to decide for yourself what will make YOU a great guitar player... once you know that you'll have a clear idea of how to proceed. A year from now, your goals may change yet again, but that's all part of the process and what makes life interesting. In the meantime, get some clear goals, then seek out that which will help you achieve them. On a side note, if you want to dabble in subjects and see if they are taking you where you want to go with guitar, you really can't go wrong with many of the MIT texts... they have some really good ones. I would still recommend that you get the Guitar Fretboard Workbook... it will help you a lot. I'd also recommend that you still go and check out Lisa's lessons as I suggested earlier (here's the link to the first series: http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=596), unless you have absolutely no interest in fingerpicking acoustic guitar (gotta tell man, the chicks LOVE that stuff... look at what it did for "Extreme"!). The reason I think Lisa's lessons would be so good for you is that you'll see how much you get from the on-line video lessons, and then you can compare that to lessons with a teacher if you go that route. My guess is that you'll like the lessons a lot, and see their value, and probably take a "hybrid" approach, working with a guitar teacher to get through some specific challenges.

Good Luck!

I fully agree with you Slipin, on everything you've said in your previous post. Great advice especially about not being able to master every aspect of playing guitar.

The practicing mistakes part is only there because beginner guitar players need to build confidence. If they are constantly thinking about what mistakes to correct, they will feel overwhelmed. As you become more advanced, it is ridiculous to practice mistakes. You play guitar exactly how you practice guitar. If you practice mistakes, you will play with mistakes!

The key is: what specific goal are you trying to fix?

You can't fix everything at once, so you ignore some mistakes to focus on a specific problem you want to improve. Otherwise your brain would explode. Hopefully this makes sense?

Time and devotion, practice everyday set goals and always make it harder, keep challenging yourslf on the instrument...practice the right things! ......dont torture yourself with hard solos if you havent got the basics down...and get some decent gear! practicing on low end equitment will only make the learning process harder/less enjoyable...and take the time to learn some theory in between.. that pretty much sums it up!

Thanks all!
Slipin- I will look into the book "Guitar Fretboard Workbook."
Matteo- Does the Tom Hess practice generator give you hard core lesson material or do you need to come up with that on your own?
Guys I get the point, there are many ways to practice guitar... But if you are not working to "Master" the guitar then what is the point? I understand that it's an elusive target. :) I am looking for specifics as to what to practice and for how long to practice each part to grow my skill level. Then at the end of a practice session play something from a genre that makes the person happy or for pure enjoyment..

Here is what I know.
1. Open positions chords. Major, minor, 7th, some 9th. Don't know for sure how they are derived, but know how to look them up. :)
2. Understand the fretboard is made of scales, notes, whole and half steps, sharps/flats, starting with each open string there is an octave that ends at the 12th fret. Don't know every note on the neck without thinking about it..
3. Understand E shaped bar chords and can find their positions on the neck.
4. Rudimentary theory, whole, half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth notes. Time signatures. 4/4 3/4 etc.
5. I can pick up most songs rhythm and put a strumming beat to it.
6. Understand finger picking and base note strumming. (not good at either!)

Not the first time I've asked these questions as I have a hard time with efficient practice time, I'm either looking things up on line or researching UTube, Wading through GT video's, or one of the many books I have on guitar or DVD's. I want a one stop guitar practice routine with variation...

Maybe looks like this:
1. Warm up stretching.
2. Warm up Fretboard exercises.
3. Scale study.
4. Fretboard memorization.
5. Chord progressions.
6. Theory.
7. Soloing over a progression or jamtrack.
8. Improvisation / creation..

Ok that is about where my small musical mind ends but hopefully you get the point.. I'm not sure what is after that maybe genre study in different areas, soo much I don't know. I wish there was a practice book that had tabs of the different things a learning guitarist needs to master before moving on to their specific art or skill practice. They could flip to the tab and choose a lesson in various levels of difficulty, spend their 10 min or whatever very efficiently at the same time learning and memorizing guitar...
Wow now that is wordy!!
Sorry, let me know what you think, or if you have ideas/examples of what has helped you all make the most of your practice time..
Thanks,
Kurt

Originally Posted by: K-LogBut if you are not working to "Master" the guitar then what is the point? [/QUOTE]

Point is, you can't just generalize, and "master" the guitar... you need to pick a path, then you CAN master that..


[QUOTE=K-Log] I wish there was a practice book that had tabs of the different things a learning guitarist needs to master before moving on to their specific art or skill practice.

I think this book lays out a really good practice routine, and is probably exactly what you're looking for. Be sure to read the stuff at the start, because its important. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0634083651/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0634049011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=04XVD5KEBRG8KXCX72FE

This book is also very good... it will really give you a broad range of ability:
http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Soloing-Contemporary-Improvisation-Included/dp/0793581869/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1324269988&sr=1-1

I few things about the last text... its not sexy... the information is great, but its straight to the point. So, when you go through a chapter, it might take you a month just to get proficient enough to move on to the next. I think to complete the whole book in a about a year would be realistic. What I did was scanned each exercise page of the book, and then made up cards that were different colors representing warm-up exercises, scale exercises (just memorizing scales) and then pattern exercises (patterns that can be used with any scale). I glued the scanned pages to the cards and it worked really well.. just chose a few from each section, then switched them up or added new ones when I was read. I didn't get through the whole thing, and had to take a break because of getting carpal tunnel syndrome. Oh, and the soundtracks on the CD are really cheezy, but really good to learn to jam with... the licks they give you are pretty "out of the box"... not just some blues lick or something.

By the way, the "Guitar Fretboard Workbook" doesn't overlap either of the other texts; its all on its own and I'll bet when you get it you'll be raving about it once you get into, it really sounds like that's what your after.

So start with all that stuff... and then think about where you want to go from there.

Originally Posted by: K-LogThanks all!
Matteo- Does the Tom Hess practice generator give you hard core lesson material or do you need to come up with that on your own?

I am looking for specifics as to what to practice and for how long to practice each part to grow my skill level. Then at the end of a practice session play something from a genre that makes the person happy or for pure enjoyment..

you will need a good teacher to come up with that specific material for you... asking on forums will get you some minor help, but unless someone spends hours creating a specific schedule with specific material for you and you alone, you won't really get that much help... we people on guitar forums can only answer specific questions that have specific answers that don't take hours to explain... you need a teacher to do that. lol

Here is what I know.
1. Open positions chords. Major, minor, 7th, some 9th. Don't know for sure how they are derived, but know how to look them up. :)
2. Understand the fretboard is made of scales, notes, whole and half steps, sharps/flats, starting with each open string there is an octave that ends at the 12th fret. Don't know every note on the neck without thinking about it..
3. Understand E shaped bar chords and can find their positions on the neck.
4. Rudimentary theory, whole, half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth notes. Time signatures. 4/4 3/4 etc.
5. I can pick up most songs rhythm and put a strumming beat to it.
6. Understand finger picking and base note strumming. (not good at either!)

Not the first time I've asked these questions as I have a hard time with efficient practice time, I'm either looking things up on line or researching UTube, Wading through GT video's, or one of the many books I have on guitar or DVD's. I want a one stop guitar practice routine with variation...

Maybe looks like this:
1. Warm up stretching.
2. Warm up Fretboard exercises.
3. Scale study.
4. Fretboard memorization.
5. Chord progressions.
6. Theory.
7. Soloing over a progression or jamtrack.
8. Improvisation / creation..

Ok that is about where my small musical mind ends but hopefully you get the point.. I'm not sure what is after that maybe genre study in different areas, soo much I don't know. I wish there was a practice book that had tabs of the different things a learning guitarist needs to master before moving on to their specific art or skill practice. They could flip to the tab and choose a lesson in various levels of difficulty, spend their 10 min or whatever very efficiently at the same time learning and memorizing guitar...
Wow now that is wordy!!
Sorry, let me know what you think, or if you have ideas/examples of what has helped you all make the most of your practice time..
Thanks,
Kurt

:p bro... that practice schedule can work for one day...

in general, you need to practice this:

1. technique
2. music theory
3. fretboard memorization
4. ear training
5. creativity

the specific exercise you have to practice will entirely depend on your skill level, the challenges you have right now, etc etc.. you really need a teacher to figure that out for you

or you can try on your own, but it will be that much harder, that much longer, and there will be so many problems... i know because i was self taught for 10 years and i learned more in my first guitar lesson with Tom Hess. you might want to check him out if you're so inclined to really master the guitar

you can learn a lot from books, but they can really only give you information. if that's all it took to become a guitar master, there would be millions of famous virtuoso guitar players around

Hi K-Log,

Given what you wrote about your current skills, I'll toss in my two cents worth of advice. I won't claim to be the fountain of all knowledge, so feel free to take it or leave it.

1) There is no one-stop practice routine. Give up the search. (Although, as an existentialist, I may be biased.)
2) Always spend more time playing the guitar than you do searching for resources on the Internet or on the bookshelves.
3) Talk with other guitar players as much as you can. Play with other guitar players as much as you can.
4) Practice playing songs using only E and A shaped barre chords. Practice this until they feel completely natural.
5) Practice arpeggios.
6) Pick a piece of music you like and learn to play it. The piece should be hard to play, but not impossible. Learn the piece a few measures at a time. Keep practicing it until you can play it with ease. Then move on to a new piece of music.
7) Finally, practice often. Frequent, short practice sessions are more effective at building skill than long, infrequent practice sessions. Pick up the guitar as often as you can. Several times a day is ideal.

Hope this helps.

Tom

Thanks again Slipin, Matteo and tsphillips. All good information that I will definitely weigh out.. I appreciate the effort and research you all have made in order to help me with my needs. Im trying to find out more about the Tom Hess practice planner now and checking into the suggested reading material and working on putting together a better plan with less wasted time!
Thanks guys!

Have you also ever considered going to MIT? I think its pricey, but I bet it would be a really good experience for someone like you... they do have shorter programs (I think one is around 6 weeks or something)... expensive, but you'd get a wide exposure to all types of styles and concepts, probably meet some great people and it would really help you define your path. I know we've gone on at length about it, but with books, DVD's, websites, and even teachers, just be careful you're not spinning your wheels and wasting money & time learning stuff that may not be conducive to you achieving your goals. Good luck!