The Golden Scale Pattern

I discovered a "magical" scale pattern while tinkering around with chord shapes. I noticed that the fretboard is designed in a way to make chords possible while strumming across the strings and staying within a reasonable number of frets (since we only have 4 fingers to work with). It is a great design. You can even "move" the chord shapes up and down the neck.

However, that same fretboard design messes up the scale patterns. It is why we need 5 different patterns to play the same scale on different places of the fretboard.

So I tinkered around with this some more and discovered a single pattern that works for every scale on every string and every fret up and down the neck. ONE SINGLE PATTERN !!!

Check it out and please post any questions or comments you have.

I would love to hear your feedback on this.

Skimmed through it, but basically the main thing it's saying is to pay attention to what fingers you are using when playing the scale pattern. These fingers you will find out are always the same pattern between 124, 134, 13, ect.

Kind of got thrown off in all the finger pattern diagrams you show since the G and A are always off.

I agree with Hunter... I went through the whole thing, and played through your diagrams on my guitar... so I didn't just flip through it.. I spent over an hour on it. It does seem like its about basing the "pattern" on which fingers you are using. I can sort of see what you're going for, but found it a little hard to know where I was in the pattern.. since I already know the 5 basic seven note patterns, I don't know how easily I would have been able to learn the major scale in all positions on the fretboard if this was my first introduction to it.

But that being said, you could be on to something... I mean, you are looking at it in very different way. I'm just not sure if it would be any easier than memorizing the more traditional 5 patterns that are based on the 5 repeating octaves that span the fretboard. What I do like about the 5 pattern approach, is that I found after a while I started to visualize all the patterns across the entire fretboard. Being able to see a scale on a single string up and down the neck, essentially a "one-fingered scale" where you could just slide up or down to the correct notes on the same string across the fretboard, I think, is a really valuable skill. I met a guitar teacher who told me "we ALWAYS want to be as efficient as possible with our soloing, so for notes that are far apart, we move up or down on the strings to keep our hand in the same position..." Really? Because the solo by The Edge on "New Years Day" is one of my favorite solos of all time, and could you imagine how different it would sound if he played it without all that sliding on the same string? My point is that playing guitar should be about creativity and expression, not necessarily efficiency.

I'm not sure how your "Golden Pattern" would help people visualize across the fretboard, and not just up and down strings. Maybe that's something you could work on? Also, initially the diagrams really confused me, but then I realized you were showing an extended (width wise) fretboard. Maybe make the "virtual strings" grayed out or something, to show that they're not real, I don't know. I also noticed that a couple of your diagrams showed EADGBE at the 13th fret which I'm assuming was a typo.

I'd like to hear what other people have to say.. I'm not sure if you're on to something or if you're kind of re-inventing the wheel. I liked the idea of basically saying "look, here's this hypothetical extended pattern... believe it or not, every time you play a scale your playing some portion of this pattern". It just seems like the method needs a little more refinement. If your brave, you could ask Christopher Schegel to take a look.. he really knows his stuff, and I'm sure could give you a realistic appraisal of this approaches merits.

Also, I'd strongly recommend that you take a look at the MIT text "The Guitar Fretboard Workbook" by Barrett Tagliango (not sure about spelling). Thats an excellent text that gets right into the nuts and bolts of exactly what you are trying to take on here. Sorry for the long post, but I am interested to see where this goes!

I really appreciate that you took the time to give this a look and provide your feedback. I like your wording suggestions and yes the fret numbers on my diagrams got shifted over by accident.

Yes, this is all about the finger pattern. As long as you are willing to shift your hand one fret to the left or right as you cross between the G and B strings you will be able to keep this single finger pattern going and play every octave on every location of the fretboard.

I suspect that most players who have already invested the time to memorize and use the 5 traditional scale patterns would have no reason to switch to something different. In fact, even though I discovered this and use this now, I still have those 5 traditional scale patterns burned into my head and I can still visualize them and use them to play scales.

I ended up posting this in the Music Theory section because I focused on the reason "why" this works and "how" the fretboard design led me to this discovery, etc, etc, blah, blah. In hindsight, I can see now that the end result "what to do" might have gotten burried under my lengthly explanations. :-)

So I am going to clean this up based on your feedback and add a section that will appeal more to those who just want to know "what to do". I will post that soon.

Thanks for the suggestion on the book. And YES, I hope Chris sees this and posts his opinion.

Hi kslowman1,

I personally have always worked in patterns on the fretboard and was aware of the fact, that the patterns always stay the same all over the fretboard and the only thing you have to do is to shift whatever pattern you use by 1 fret when crossing the line between G and B string.

I think there are several kinds of players out there - the ones who need a theoretical approach and the ones who are more into an optical, pattern oriented way of percieving the fretboard. I´m a very visual person, so i always tried to put the theory, once i understood a certain concept of it, into patterns that i can visualize. Like for example the 4 basic triads. They all consist of major and minor thirds stacked on top of eachother. So what i did was to look on how a major and a minor third looks like on the fretboard and voila - now i can find any of those chords anywhere on the fretboard without having to actually think about what notes are in there.

Btw - that "perfect fretboard" is also nothing really new - Bob Culbertson has that very same concept on one of his tutorials on the ChapmanStick - he calls it "the 7-stringed instrument".

Other than that, i think the idea behind it is very good and i have been teaching my students that "visual" way of looking on theory for quite a while now, because i think its way easier for someone who has no clue about theory. After a while i blend the theory in to show them the theoretical background behind the patterns. Works fine and ppl tend to be very surprised how easy basic theory can be if you explain it right.

I have been thinking about creating a whole tutorial line based on those visuals for several years now, but the problem is that i just don't have enough time to do it.

Originally Posted by: kslowman1And YES, I hope Chris sees this and posts his opinion.

And here I am. :)

First & foremost, I applaud your curiosity & interest in trying to figure out new ways to view the guitar fretboard.

Your pattern is something I've seen a few times over the years. I remember seeing a couple of guitar magazine articles with this approach. The ones I saw were aimed at understanding the natural notes of the fretboard (the "white keys" of the piano) & as a consequence, the C major scale.

I think your pattern idea has merit on those two issues. But, it's kind of like a mechanic that has recently discovered a certain wrench that is very useful on more than one task. Unfortunately, he'll run into problems when he thinks it can be used in every single task he wants to work on. :p

I don't want to discourage you, because I really think it's wonderful you've done so much thinking & working on this idea. But, I want to be totally honest & objective in order to keep the theory forum as accurate as possible! :)

Your pattern is indeed a good way to visualize & understand the pattern that the natural notes (no sharps or flats) form on the guitar fretboard. And this is of course the C major scale & it's relative A minor! And as you mentioned, you can then use it to visualize any other major or minor scale pattern. So far, so good.

However, I think the pattern is limited in application.

You could use it as a sort of default setting on playing diatonic major & minor scales. This is basically the idea of one finger per fret.

But, even though pentatonic scales are based on those same diatonic scales, the way in which pentatonic scales are actually used in music is often different from the standard diatonic, one finger per fret approach (think sliding from position to position, making the most of middle & ring finger bends, using all the fingers to do various same fret diads, etc.).

Any musical pattern that requires a position shift, modulation or transposition is a problem. Any musical pattern that uses more than four frets is immediately a problem (various triads & arpeggios, major 3rd stretches). The area of the fretboard above the 12th fret is usually where I revert to index, middle & ring even on typical diatonic scales.

And one of the hardest theory & application aspects of the guitar to get used to is the G to B string jump of a major 3rd instead of a 4th. Again, I think it's very good & clever that you've abstracted away this little speedbump from your overall pattern. But don't forget, real guitars actually have this little speedbump! :) So, unless you intend on tuning in 4ths across the fretboard, any system you devise to play actual music on the guitar will have to take this into account. And that is exactly the sort of thing that makes 5 patterns, or various triads, CAGED systems, 7 diatonic modes, etc. useful in the end.

You should always consider if the rubber meets the road, to make sure you aren't just spinning your wheels. :p

I think the idea does have merit if you find ways to apply it that will help you understand the fretboard better. And it's even better if you can find ways to apply it to playing actual musical phrases, licks, etc.

Here are some of my tutorials that are similiar to your idea, but try to take into account how these patterns will be used to play music, as well as the G to B string bump:

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=419
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=898
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=899
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=462

In summary, you've got a great idea, but it might not be as widely applicable as you'd thought. Hope this helps! Keep thinking and making sure you can apply it. ;)

Hi Chris, thank you for your feedback.

Website forums are fantastic when you have a simple question. However, it can get a little trickier when you have an idea or a concept that you want vetted out. This one came straight from a test tube in my laboratory to the forum as a way to start soliciting feedback. I think you understood that so I really appreciate how you responded in an objective and thoughtful way.

And thanks for providing those links. For some reason I had not found those on the site before. I now see that you have personally supplied us with 1,247 of these awesome lessons so I guess I have a lot more exploring to do!!

Anyway, I checked them out and after watching you shred those scale patterns, I totally get where you are coming from in terms of testing the “application” of ideas and concepts. I had been thinking about that myself as well. I was wondering if this idea, which focuses on simplicity by “abstracting the speed bump” as you so eloquently described it, might come at the expense of efficiency due to the hand movements necessary to keep the simple pattern going. Since I am not able to play fast enough yet to field test this myself, I was hoping others might weigh in on that for me. So thank you for highlighting that.

I also suspected that this idea had most likely already been vetted out and didn’t survive the law of natural selection (meaning the best techniques bubble up to the top and become the ones that are passed on). After all, the guitar has been around for a very long time right? Having said that, people still keep coming along who do everything “wrong” only to discover something “right”. I remember the first time I tried to intentionally hit all those “wrong” strings so I could sound like SRV. :-)

So, in that spirit of exploration, here is another version of my document but this time using a “how to play it” approach. If folks are curious and don’t mind taking it for a spin, I’d like to hear their feedback.

In the end, I suppose it all comes down to “application”. We start by trying to wrap our brain around it. Then we commit it to our sub-conscious. Then we ingrain it into our muscle memory. If our application ends up being what we want then we are happy and it doesn’t really so much matter how we got there. If it ends up limiting how far we can go then we wish we had learned it a different way right from the beginning. Hmmmm…. sounds like I am describing my golf swing here. :-0

But seriously, thanks again Chris for your generosity on this site and the forums. I am grateful to have direct access to the masters!!

Originally Posted by: kslowman1Hi Chris, thank you for your feedback.[/quote]
Welcome, of course! I am glad you were able to use my feedback in a productive way.
[QUOTE=kslowman1]
So, in that spirit of exploration, here is another version of my document but this time using a “how to play it” approach. If folks are curious and don’t mind taking it for a spin, I’d like to hear their feedback.

Wonderful! And you've already worked on improving & refining your idea. :) This is great. I will have a look & reply as I am able in the next few days; very busy right now!

More later. :)

Just a thought I was having about the "Golden Pattern"... you came up with it by hypothetically extending the width of the fretboard (so instead of 6 strings, you just kept adding strings) until the pattern repeated. However, obviously most actual fretboards are restricted to 6 strings, so in the end, you're really playing different patterns that can be viewed as being parts of larger single pattern.

The 5 basic patterns that are more traditionally used could be viewed the same way. If you take a fretboard and extended lengthwise, the 5 patterns would eventually repeat, and therefore could be viewed as a "single pattern". In fact, that the whole rationale behind the 5 octave pattern approach, is that those 5 octaves repeat across the fretboard.

One thing I noticed with your "Golden Pattern" approach is that when I tried to apply it to modes, it got pretty complicated. For the major scale, the string skip idea works. But when trying to play say, the Dorian scale, I have to think back to the pattern as it would be played in the major scale mode, then think where I am in that pattern but now playing the Dorian mode, and where the "string skip" would occur even though I'm not crossing the G & B strings... sorry if I'm not explaining this well, I'm not a super technical player.

One thing I really like about the 5 octave pattern approach that MIT uses, is that you are learning just the 5 patterns, and you use those same patterns to play all modes. Similar to what you're trying to come up with, but without the confusion of when to "skip strings". So when you're trying to "learn" to solo in A Minor after learning the Cmaj scale, you're not learning any new "patterns"... you're simply learning to center the patterns you already know around a new tonal center, A instead of C. What I like about this approach is that for me at least, it makes modes more useful. It seems like a lot of people ask "how do I learn this mode?" and "when should I use this mode?"... but for myself, I'll be jamming along with a backing track or whatever, and come up with some riff or solo bit that I like, without worrying about what notes I'm using. Then, by identifying the tonal center/root note and the pattern I'm using, I can work it back and figure out what scale/mode I'm using, which may lead to other ideas.

The great thing about the 5 pattern approach though is that the patterns repeat, and always in order. So once you've identified which pattern you're using, you know where the rest of the notes are. After a while, I found I was starting to be able to visualize the entire pattern across the fretboard, which is nice is you want to slide into notes or use certain fingers for bending. I just think its great to be able to visualize where you on the fretboard independent of your finger placement.

I still think your idea has potential, but I'd also strongly recommend you check out "The Guitar Fretboard Workbook" so you can see what's been laid out so far. I'm just thinking back to your original post where you said if someone had explained the "Golden Pattern" concept to you earlier, it would have been really helpful.... I found that with the Guitar Fretboard Workbook.. for instance, I've have tons of people try and explain flats & sharps & key signatures, and they always had really complicated explanations. Then I read "we don't mix sharps & flats, and we don't use the same letter twice" and that just made a whole lot of sense to me!

Good Luck!

Cal

Cal, thanks again for investing the time to help me vet out this idea I call the Golden Scale Pattern. Your thoughts and feedback are helping me tailor my approach and my thinking around this idea.

I have also had a chance to explore a lot more of the content on the site and that has also helped me think about it from different angles.

So all of that and some additional brainstorming on my part has given me some new ideas on how to present this in a slightly different way to see if folks think it might be useful. Version #3 is in the works...

Thanks,

Ken

Koslowman

I read your original post on this thread but did not see any link to check out the Golden Scale you referred to ? Being new to GT I may have missed something.

Originally Posted by: Guitarbuff1Koslowman

I read your original post on this thread but did not see any link to check out the Golden Scale you referred to ? Being new to GT I may have missed something.

It's in the his last post on the first page.

I've got one last cut at this based on feedback from others and additional noodling around in my free time over the holidays. I will be posting a new PDF in the next couple of weeks so if you happen to have any final comments, questions or feedback, please let me know.

Then I'll be into something else that interests me while this Golden Scale Pattern will move deeper and deeper into the Forum archives until some day in the distant future when someone (probably a complete beginner) will stumble upon it and bring the whole thing back up again... :-)

The ultimate golden scale pattern is to learn all the modes of the major scale in 3 note per string patterns. :)

Then integrate them together. And sequence them. :D

Good lesson in there though. Good job!