I'm on Guitar Fundamentals 2 Chapter 2: C major scale for beginners. I'm trying really understand the principles behind the guitar. Chris kept saying to go ''5 frets back and one string over.'' as a way of making the distance between notes on the scale shorter. What exactly is going on when you do this? Why does this work? I've been trying to understand that concept instead of just memorizing the idea but I don't quite get it. Any help is appreciated! Thanks!
5 frets back and 1 string over?
Hey everyone,
I'm on Guitar Fundamentals 2 Chapter 2: C major scale for beginners. I'm trying really understand the principles behind the guitar. Chris kept saying to go ''5 frets back and one string over.'' as a way of making the distance between notes on the scale shorter. What exactly is going on when you do this? Why does this work? I've been trying to understand that concept instead of just memorizing the idea but I don't quite get it. Any help is appreciated! Thanks!
I'm on Guitar Fundamentals 2 Chapter 2: C major scale for beginners. I'm trying really understand the principles behind the guitar. Chris kept saying to go ''5 frets back and one string over.'' as a way of making the distance between notes on the scale shorter. What exactly is going on when you do this? Why does this work? I've been trying to understand that concept instead of just memorizing the idea but I don't quite get it. Any help is appreciated! Thanks!
# 1
Let me see if I am understanding what you are are saying:
If you start on the 7th fret of the A string, move BACK 5 frets, and then down to the D string
or
Start on the 7th fret of the A string, move UP 5 frets and then up to the E string
you will land on the same note. 7th fret, A string is the note E. Moving back 5 down 1 will also land you on E.
So start on the note C (for the C scale) on the 3rd fret of the A string. Move up 5 frets (now on the 8th fret) then jump up to the E string. This note is also C.
Don't really understand what you mean by:
"as a way of making the distance between notes on the scale shorter"
Edit: Another interesting way to look at this is by starting on a 5th fret. I'm assuming by now you know how to tune the guitar by tuning the 5th fret of one string to the open string below it. The reason this works is because of that concept you are talking about.
Start on the 5th fret of the low E string. You can go down 4 frets to fret 1. Going down one more would require you to play the string open. Then move down to the A string (5 frets down, 1 string down) and you are now playing the open A string. Both pitches are the same.
You are basically starting on one note and the finding the exact same note somewhere else through this helpful pattern. I can't watch the videos but I am ASSUMING that this is basically what he is doing. Finding 1 note somewhere else in order to maybe find an easier way to play a scale.
If you start on the 7th fret of the A string, move BACK 5 frets, and then down to the D string
or
Start on the 7th fret of the A string, move UP 5 frets and then up to the E string
you will land on the same note. 7th fret, A string is the note E. Moving back 5 down 1 will also land you on E.
So start on the note C (for the C scale) on the 3rd fret of the A string. Move up 5 frets (now on the 8th fret) then jump up to the E string. This note is also C.
Don't really understand what you mean by:
"as a way of making the distance between notes on the scale shorter"
Edit: Another interesting way to look at this is by starting on a 5th fret. I'm assuming by now you know how to tune the guitar by tuning the 5th fret of one string to the open string below it. The reason this works is because of that concept you are talking about.
Start on the 5th fret of the low E string. You can go down 4 frets to fret 1. Going down one more would require you to play the string open. Then move down to the A string (5 frets down, 1 string down) and you are now playing the open A string. Both pitches are the same.
You are basically starting on one note and the finding the exact same note somewhere else through this helpful pattern. I can't watch the videos but I am ASSUMING that this is basically what he is doing. Finding 1 note somewhere else in order to maybe find an easier way to play a scale.
# 2
Originally Posted by: xendurancex
I'm on Guitar Fundamentals 2 Chapter 2: C major scale for beginners. I'm trying really understand the principles behind the guitar. Chris kept saying to go ''5 frets back and one string over.'' as a way of making the distance between notes on the scale shorter. What exactly is going on when you do this?
You are playing the exact same note in a different location. This works because the guitar is designed to be able to play most notes in more than one place.
The purpose of this is to be able to play a lot of notes (or a whole scale in this case) in one fretboard position. So, instead of constantly having to move your hand further up the neck on the same string if you want to play a higher sounding note, instead we merely stay in the same general location & use the next string over.
This is a very valuable way of grasping why the guitar is designed as it is & how to make the most use of this knowledge.
Hope this helps. Ask more if necessary!
Thanks to Hunter for an outstanding explanation without benefit of seeing the lesson! :)
Christopher Schlegel
Guitar Tricks Instructor
Christopher Schlegel Lesson Directory
# 3
Thanks Hunter and Chris! That really helps. I'm still curious about WHY it works. I'm still processing the whole interval thing. What exactly is happening as far as the intervals go so that this concept holds true?
Tim
Tim
# 4
There may be a more "technical" answer, but I believe it's just because of the way the guitar is tuned (E A D G B E). If you look at it in terms of frets (half step intervals), not notes, you see that everything is lined up the same, just "off" by 5 frets each string. Everything shifts to the left by 5 frets as you go down the strings.
D:11-12-13-14-15-16-ect
A: 6--7--8--9-10-11-12-13-14-15--16--17-18
E: 1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10--11--12--13
Take "11" for example. Every 11 is the same pitch as the other 11's on the other strings. There are 3 different "11's" here, but they are exactly the same. No difference in octaves or pitch, so there are no intervals between them. Open A would be 5, which is the "5" on the E string.
I'm not sure if the right way to look at is is through intervals, like you are trying to do. Since you aren't going to a different octave. You are going to the exact same note/pitch so it isn't really an interval thing. It's just a pattern to find one note in another place. A shortcut.
Octaves on the other hand are an interval thing. One pattern you may be familiar with to find an octave is to go down 2 strings, up 2 frets. So start with C on the 3rd fret of the A string, go down 2 strings to the G string, then right 2 frets to the 5th fret, and you land on C again. Same note but different OCTAVE. You can look at this with intervals because you now have a distance of A to B between your 2 notes (look at it as "low C" and "high C"). There are notes between the two different C's.
There are intervals between octaves, but not between notes of the exact same pitch, like in the pattern you originally spoke of. That brings you to the exact same note as opposed to the same note, but in a different octave. So there are no intervals between the 2.
EDIT:
If you are looking more for the reason why the guitar is layed out the way it is, then that's a whole different thing. EADGBE is known as "Standard tuning". The reason those notes were picked has to do with what Chris mentioned:
"The purpose of this is to be able to play a lot of notes (or a whole scale in this case) in one fretboard position. "
This tuning is used most often because it allowes for easy finger placement for many chords. Ever wonder why the B string is off-set and you have to tune it to the 4th fret of the string above it, instead of the 5th like every other string? Tune it the same as you would the other strings and it becomes C, then the E string becomes F. Try fingering a chord like that! Bar chords get thrown out the window since you would now be barring the wrong notes on the last 2 strings you just changed. All chords you play using the E and B strings would require you to shift your fingers around in most likely uncomfortable positions.
Have a quick look at the wiki on tuning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_tunings#Standard_tuning
As you can see there are a different ways to tune (drop tuning would be the next most used I think). The whole purpose of tuning different ways is to make things easier to play with your left hand.
D:11-12-13-14-15-16-ect
A: 6--7--8--9-10-11-12-13-14-15--16--17-18
E: 1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10--11--12--13
Take "11" for example. Every 11 is the same pitch as the other 11's on the other strings. There are 3 different "11's" here, but they are exactly the same. No difference in octaves or pitch, so there are no intervals between them. Open A would be 5, which is the "5" on the E string.
I'm not sure if the right way to look at is is through intervals, like you are trying to do. Since you aren't going to a different octave. You are going to the exact same note/pitch so it isn't really an interval thing. It's just a pattern to find one note in another place. A shortcut.
Octaves on the other hand are an interval thing. One pattern you may be familiar with to find an octave is to go down 2 strings, up 2 frets. So start with C on the 3rd fret of the A string, go down 2 strings to the G string, then right 2 frets to the 5th fret, and you land on C again. Same note but different OCTAVE. You can look at this with intervals because you now have a distance of A to B between your 2 notes (look at it as "low C" and "high C"). There are notes between the two different C's.
There are intervals between octaves, but not between notes of the exact same pitch, like in the pattern you originally spoke of. That brings you to the exact same note as opposed to the same note, but in a different octave. So there are no intervals between the 2.
EDIT:
If you are looking more for the reason why the guitar is layed out the way it is, then that's a whole different thing. EADGBE is known as "Standard tuning". The reason those notes were picked has to do with what Chris mentioned:
"The purpose of this is to be able to play a lot of notes (or a whole scale in this case) in one fretboard position. "
This tuning is used most often because it allowes for easy finger placement for many chords. Ever wonder why the B string is off-set and you have to tune it to the 4th fret of the string above it, instead of the 5th like every other string? Tune it the same as you would the other strings and it becomes C, then the E string becomes F. Try fingering a chord like that! Bar chords get thrown out the window since you would now be barring the wrong notes on the last 2 strings you just changed. All chords you play using the E and B strings would require you to shift your fingers around in most likely uncomfortable positions.
Have a quick look at the wiki on tuning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_tunings#Standard_tuning
As you can see there are a different ways to tune (drop tuning would be the next most used I think). The whole purpose of tuning different ways is to make things easier to play with your left hand.
# 5
http://www.guitartricks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29283
check out post number 6 it may help with the colors to separate the octaves. I feel that its easier to absorb with the color changes.
One guitar tricks' FINEST member posted this some years ago. Looking back, I (or he) should have changed colors on each A. But since the E is the lowest note in standard tuning, that probably made more since to him at the time.
I tried opening the fret24 that is farther down but there is some issue with the way its zipped.
check out post number 6 it may help with the colors to separate the octaves. I feel that its easier to absorb with the color changes.
One guitar tricks' FINEST member posted this some years ago. Looking back, I (or he) should have changed colors on each A. But since the E is the lowest note in standard tuning, that probably made more since to him at the time.
I tried opening the fret24 that is farther down but there is some issue with the way its zipped.
# 6