Fretboard Memorization-

I was going to ask a question about scales, but will adjust the question- take for instance the super fast guitar shred style- malmsteen, gilbert, ect..these guys play so fast, how can they even stop to think about what the names are of each individual notes they are playing, when they are playing so many notes at blazing speed? to play really fast, so much of that is improvizational often, and to consciously think would slow one down. So when one is practicing different scale patterns down the fretboard, is it really important to call out the individual notes or concentrate on the actual patterns and the sound of that scale? any suggestions out there...

Paul Gilbert says that one of the most important things you can do, is to learn a solo that you know, in at least two or three places on the guitar. You have to know where the notes are in order to be able to do that.

Originally Posted by: greyghoast17...take for instance the super fast guitar shred style- malmsteen, gilbert, ect..these guys play so fast, how can they even stop to think about what the names are of each individual notes they are playing, when they are playing so many notes at blazing speed?

They don't think about each note as they play it. There isn't time to do that. What they do is think in a large unit that contains a group of notes they are already extremely familiar with.

So when Yngwie plays licks like this:

http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=14666&s_id=973

He is not explicitly thinking, "Okay let's see. B, A, G, then slide down to F#, then, A, G, F#, then slide down to E ..." and so on. At one point a long time ago he did have to think that at least once. Then, he practiced it for 8-10 hours a day for a few years. With enough practice doing one of those giant licks only requires Yngwie to think, "E minor scale down in 4s". If even that much! :)

At a certain point, whole phrases, fretboard patterns & even songs can become second nature because they are automated.

The only way to memorize the fretboard and licks like that to competently play those scales (or anything on the guitar) is sheer repetition. There is simply no substitute for hours, days & years of practice. This is completely a matter of practice. Everyone has to go through this stage. For some it's longer; others, it's shorter. But the same thing has to take place: you must repeat the physical motions until it becomes second nature to you.

What's happening is your brain must build those new neural pathways, and your muscles will get more and more used to these new signals being sent to them and respond quicker ("muscle memory").

At first you have to fully focus on every little motion & movement. You have to think, "Put my finger here, don't mute the other strings, this is a ... what note? a C note, now, pick it carefully ... what's the next note ... "

Gradually, as you repeat these things, they become automated (shifted over to your subconscious), and you are able to think in larger units. Eventually, after enough practice, you don't have to focus on each & every note or movement. Instead, you can think, "C major scale" and your brain & hands will take care of the details.

Eventually, you can get to the stage of playing whole sequences of chords or notes or even songs on "auto-pilot". This is because it's been practiced enough to be automated.

So, you don't stop thinking when you play fast. You just think in bigger terms. You think in whole groups or phrases of notes, instead of each note one at a time. Make sense?

You can practice more effectively. In order to get more effective practice on scales, you might try to repeat the notes mulitple times. So if you playing the C major scale, play it very slowly & deliberately. Play each note 8 or 4 times:

c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-
d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-
e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-
etc.

And so on. Focus on each note at this stage. Say or sing it along with playing it. Gradually, pare it down.

c-c-c-c-
d-d-d-d-
e-e-e-e-
etc.

Then:

c-c-d-d-e-e-, etc.

Finally, play each note once! Remember, this is an example of how to practice over the course of days. I am not saying do it 8 times, then right away 4 times, then right away 2 times & then, presto you'll be done with scales.

Realistically, we are never "done with" scales or chords or anything we have to keep learning & practicing! Make sense? Remember, all the things in GF 1&2 are what we as guitarists will always go back over and practice & improve upon for as long as we play guitar.

So take your time. Be patient with yourself. It is also important to enjoy the process. Otherwise, you wind up second guessing yourself, and not enjoying what you are going to have to go through anyway in the initial learning curve. We all had to go through that hard beginning phase. We all have things we are still working on that are hard and frustrating!

I had tons & days of frustration as a beginner. I still have problem areas. But I no longer let them frustrate me. I accept I have things I need to work on & try to enjoy the process. And I make sure that I take pride in & enjoy the things I have already achieved.

And, as long as you are committed to learning, making progress and having fun, then as Mr. Gershwin asked, "Who could ask for anything more?"

Best of success with it! Let me know how it goes.

I bookmarked the Yngwie lesson in E-Minor. Those answers helped me out. I can play scales & arpeggios fast and I can Improvise fast, but I'd like to put more musicality into what I'm doing. I'll practice the scales slower some and call out the notes more often to see how that goes.

Originally Posted by: greyghoast17I bookmarked the Yngwie lesson in E-Minor. Those answers helped me out.[/quote]
OK, good deal!
[QUOTE=greyghoast17] I can play scales & arpeggios fast and I can Improvise fast, but I'd like to put more musicality into what I'm doing. I'll practice the scales slower some and call out the notes more often to see how that goes.

Excellent! Sounds like you have the raw physical skills under your command. In order to make your shredding more musical (as you so precisely put it!) check out the rest of that tutorial.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=973

It will show you how to think about how to use "this chunk" of the scale to play over "the first chord", then "that chunk" of the scale to play over "the next chord". After you build a vocabulary of licks that you already know work over certain chords and progressions, then you are on your way to musicality. :)

The others in the series might help, too.

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=928
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=929
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=980

Let me know how it goes & have fun!

Originally Posted by: greyghoast17I was going to ask a question about scales, but will adjust the question- take for instance the super fast guitar shred style- malmsteen, gilbert, ect..these guys play so fast, how can they even stop to think about what the names are of each individual notes they are playing, when they are playing so many notes at blazing speed? to play really fast, so much of that is improvizational often, and to consciously think would slow one down. So when one is practicing different scale patterns down the fretboard, is it really important to call out the individual notes or concentrate on the actual patterns and the sound of that scale? any suggestions out there...

One thing I found useful was to print out a bunch of blank fretboards (or use graph paper or draw them) and write the notes for each position. For example, take a page and locate all the positions for C. Then draw in the C scales, etc. It really helped me to know where the notes were and see some of the patterns.

I like to have my students memorize in 3 ways:

1) Go up and down each string with each major scale and SAY the name of each note out loud. (Side benefit is memorizing the notes in each major scale)

2) Find a particular note all over the neck.

3) Memorize all notes on one fret.

That gets some pretty fast results.

Originally Posted by: JonChorba
3) Memorize all notes on one fret.

Kind of confusing the way you say that. Did you mean to say one string, or 1 fret as in 5th fret, all 6 strings?

I know a lot of people that get almost overwhelmed when starting scales. What I generally tell them is to think of it like typing. At first you pick and poke, then you start using the correct fingers, but you have to look at the keyboard and really concentrate on what you are spelling. Eventually, your hands treat typing exactly like speaking. You don't THINK about the letters you are typing, or really even the words themselves. Your brain just instinctively knows through repetition how to recreate the word you want. (Well, that is, assuming you're a big geek like my friends and I and type well :D )

Originally Posted by: NecroniusEventually, your hands treat typing exactly like speaking. You don't THINK about the letters you are typing, or really even the words themselves. Your brain just instinctively knows through repetition how to recreate the word you want.

I think that's an excellent analogy. Steve Vai had a video where he demonstrates the idea of being able to sing your solo, and play what you sing. So he'd sing out the notes while simultaneously playing them on the guitar. Seems like a really good thing to practice.