Should I use temperaments to tune?

Didn't know what forum this would go in. It's have theory/tech kinda stuff I guess.

Anyways, does anyone use temperaments to tune their guitar? I'm about to set my intonation up and my tuner is able to have different temperaments programed into it, so figured I'd explore that area a bit.

I know that the guitar is designed as an equal temperament instrument, but I know people like to sometimes use something a little different. Should I intonate using equal temperament, then tune using a different one. Or intonate AND tune with the same thing?

Hey Hunter....

I hate to ask this but... What are temperments?

I'll just copy paste an email conversation I was having with a tech support guy for my tuner. He's answering a specific question I had but it goes into temperaments and there are a few links that deal with the subject. But in the most basic sense, they are slight adjustments made to note frequencies. The purpose of them is to make an overall "better sounding" range of notes.

On the ST-200, each of the 5 settings other than Chromatic (CHRM) can be set to one of two modes, "open tuning" mode or "temperament" mode. In open tuning mode, the tuner shows the string number of the note being played. In temperament mode it shows the note name, and will respond to all 12 notes of the scale. In either of these modes you can offset each note by up to 50 cents.

CHRM mode is always equal temperament chromatic. The other 5 settings can be programmed any way you want.

As shipped, the tuner is set to open tuning mode, and there are no cents offsets programmed in, so you will be tuning in equal temperament. You can customize them any way you want. You can also change any of the 5 programmable settings to temperament mode. In this mode the pre-programmed temperaments shown on page 24 will be in effect. Again, you can customize the offsets any way you want. The temperaments we include are used by guitarists that play special instruments. I will discuss some of these shortly.

Just Intonation is a musical scale where the intervals between notes are based on ratios of integers. For example, the interval of a fifth has a ratio of 3/2, and a major third has a ratio of 5/4.

These intervals are also called pure intervals. They give a very harmonious sound.

For example, middle C has a frequency of 261.626 Hz. The note E is an interval of a third away, and so will have a frequency of 261.626 x 5/4 = 327.032 Hz. Similarly, the note G is an interval of a fifth away, and so will have a frequency of 261.626 x 3/2 = 392.438

An excellent discussion of tuning and temperaments can be found here: http://www.guyguitars.com/eng/index.html

You can learn more about Just Intonation at http://www.justintonation.net/

A musical temperament is a method of tuning that makes adjustments to the pure intervals of just intonation. You can find a discussion of this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament

The equal temperament is the most common one today. It divides the octave into 12 equally spaced intervals (a semitone) which correspond to one fret position on a guitar, or one key on a piano.

Each semitone is further broken down into 100 units, called a cent. In other words, one cent is 1/100th of a semitone.

50 cents is therefore one-half of a semitone. So, C+50 cents is the same as B-50 cents.

The equal temperament does not result in pure intervals, and is not as harmonious as just intonation.

A standard guitar is by its very nature an equal temperament instrument. The relative pitch of the notes is determined by the positioning of the frets. You cannot use Just Intonation on a standard guitar.

There are guitars made that do play in temperaments other than equal temperament. These either have more than 12 frets per octave, or have frets that are not straight. You can learn more about these instruments at the following links:

http://www.freenotemusic.com

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

I hope this has been of some help to you.

Originally Posted by: hunter1801Anyways, does anyone use temperaments to tune their guitar? I'm about to set my intonation up and my tuner is able to have different temperaments programed into it, so figured I'd explore that area a bit.[/QUOTE]
I would use equal temperament. I would only use something else if I had a guitar with some kind of Buzz Feiten system or some fanned frets, etc.

I've read about, but have no direct experience with people using slightly different intonation temperaments in order to get their open tuning chords to sound more "beatless". However, if you play standard pop-rock using standard tuning, then I suggest equal temperament.

I've got an old Peterson strobe. I used it for piano tuning. Just another paid skill back in my working musician days. :) They are handy because you have to do this to get a piano to sound "right". Look halfway down the page.

http://www.precisionstrobe.com/apps/pianotemp/temper.html

I also remember that a strobe tuner (usually a Peterson) was the standard machine for tuning brass in most big bands & orchestras I've played in. You can spend a good hour sitting around waiting for each brass guy to have his turn in front of the Peterson, fine tuning his horn crook until his B-flat (or E-flat) is in tune. And it's worth it! Ever hear a high school marching band and the brass is "all wonky"? Someone doesn't know how to or didn't use a strobe tuner. :)

So, I think the other temperaments are more useful for instruments other than guitar.
[quote=RickBlacker]What are temperments?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament

Hm, I vaguely knew about temperaments but never dove into it much. Thanks for the info!

Actaully there are many different temperaments. The most common ist of course the equal which you find in any standard tuner or you can make by ear on the 5th fret.

I mostly use this one too because it fits into most applications specially on rock you need to have perfect pitch for the powerchords otherwise they sound pretty blury.

I had a talk once with my piano tuner who also tunes piano's for the big concert halls in Zürich when people like Herbie Hancock are perfoming or at the conservatory and he told me that he uses a slight higher pitch on the high notes which makes the piano sound more brilliant. I tested this on the guitar by tuning the high stings a little bit higher and in fact I liked the effect.

On accoustic guitars it is also very tricky to tune it because the guitar as an instrument itself is not a perfect instrument. So if you are strict you always have to make compromises. If you tune in in perfect pitch it sounds perfect from till maximum the 5th fret - so my solution I choose is to tune the guitar in octaves in the 5th fret. This way you have the best compromise for the low and high positions and I play mostly aroung the 3-7 fret.

But as I said if you dont want to go so much in detail you just use standard tuning. If works fine for many applications.

HP