Scale playing question for guitarists (that know music theory)

When you play a scale is it just a pattern (or box) you play on the neck of your guitar that comes from visual memory or do you first think of the notes that make up the scale prior to playing them or some kind of mix of both?

When I play a scale it's from 'visual' memory (or feeling) of what the pattern I need to play looks like. I can write down the notes of the scale but I have to think about it for a while.

For instance the C major scale starts at C and then it's 2 half steps so next note is a D and then again 2 half steps then you're at E and then comes half a step so F, etc... And when you give me the notes then I can play them but not as fast as I can play a scale from pattern/visual memory...

I mean, we guitarists, we can simply transpose our scales by moving our hand up and down the neck of our guitar so we don't have to think too hard, but how does a pianist do it?

When a piano player is asked to play the G# major scale he can't just transpose his C major scale like we do so what does he do?

- Does he know how to play each and every major scale (and other scales) from visual memory?
- Does he know by heart the notes to play of that scale and plays them accordingly?

Originally Posted by: dvanevenWhen you play a scale is it just a pattern (or box) you play on the neck of your guitar that comes from visual memory or do you first think of the notes that make up the scale prior to playing them or some kind of mix of both?[/quote]
Both. It is visual patterns that I decide to use to make very specific sounds. That is the most important part; music is an auditory art, the patterns, boxes, visual aids, etc. are the tools and devices by which we create musical notes.

Guitarists are typically "visual" players. So are pianists. Contrasting with horn or wind players who cannot visually perceive the musical patterns they make in a graphic manner.

Originally Posted by: dvanevenAnd when you give me the notes then I can play them but not as fast as I can play a scale from pattern/visual memory...[/quote]
This is one reason I practice scales and such: in order to make any one of those an automatic process, to play them on demand, to have them "right at my fingertips when desired".

Originally Posted by: dvaneven
I mean, we guitarists, we can simply transpose our scales by moving our hand up and down the neck of our guitar so we don't have to think too hard, but how does a pianist do it?
[/quote]
I think you are underestimating how much thought it takes to do this! It's not an effortless process. Once you have it down, it seems easy and not to require much thought. But getting to that point takes thought and effort.

A pianist does it by thought, sight and, or tactile sense.
[QUOTE=dvaneven]When a piano player is asked to play the G# major scale he can't just transpose his C major scale like we do so what does he do?

He knows that all major scales have the same formula. And he has or should have practiced the A-flat major scale enough to shred it out on demand.
[QUOTE=dvaneven]- Does he know how to play each and every major scale (and other scales) from visual memory?

A competent pianist, yes. That is part of the competency test in a university level music degree: piano proficiency; playing all major, minor scales in all keys on demand, playing ii-V-I cadences in all keys, etc.
[QUOTE=dvaneven]
- Does he know by heart the notes to play of that scale and plays them accordingly?

Yes, he ought to have them memorized, automated and be able to play them on demand. Or else he is not a totally competent musician.

Thanks Christopher! You cleared out a question for me that I have been wondering about for years now... (as I lack muscician friends :rolleyes: )

I started playing guitar when I was 12 on my own (with a chord book and tabs, I really wanted to learn pearl jam) and took a month or two of guitar lessons when I was 16. One of the things the guitar teach thought me was the "blues scale" and how to use it to improvise.

So basically, what I have been doing with the "blues scale" since then (14 years ago now) is pick patterns from this scale when I'm playing a solo or lick over a backing track. Obviously I play alot of the same patterns using the blues scale to get a specific sound or sequence of notes. I can actually hear the stuff I'm going to play in my head before I actually play it...

So since I recently became a member of this great site I can learn lots of other scales and how to apply them in the same manner as I have been doing with the blues scale? Or am I missing what you are saying?

Once again, thanks for the answer and the great site!

Originally Posted by: dvanevenYou cleared out a question for me that I have been wondering about for years now...
[/quote]
You are quite welcome. :)

Originally Posted by: dvaneven
Obviously I play alot of the same patterns using the blues scale to get a specific sound or sequence of notes. I can actually hear the stuff I'm going to play in my head before I actually play it...

It is excellent that you can "hear it" in your mind! That is proof you are paying attention to what you do and you are connecting and integrating the patterns with actual sounds. Well done.
[QUOTE=dvaneven].. I can learn lots of other scales and how to apply them in the same manner as I have been doing with the blues scale? Or am I missing what you are saying?

If you haven't yet, please go through Guitar Fundamentals 2 which starts with intervals and builds them into scales. Then, you will get a lot of great info on how scales and chords are related to each other.

http://www.guitartricks.com/course.php?input=2

Then, use your existing knowledge of the pentatonic boxes to your advantage by going through these:

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=722
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=185
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=483
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=491

http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=217
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=232
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=244

Let me know if those are on target, and how it goes. Best of success.

Thanks :) I started the Guitar Fundamentals 2 path already and am learning alot of new stuff (even though it also contains some very basic things)

I will go through any material you throw at me :D