Equator

Originally Posted by: equatorIf you have a Dm chord playing on the back.
You can play different scales over it to bring up distinct “flavors”.

The D minor Scale or D Aeolian has the notes: (D - E - F - G - A - Bb - C) which are relative to the F major scale.

If you want to play a D Dorian you play the notes: (D - E - F - G - A - B - C) which are relative to the C major scale.

If you really want to understand the Modes and be able to used them, you should stop thinking of them as a major scale starting on a different degree.

Instead you should think of them as separate scales with their own step structure and interval types.
Trust me, I didn’t understand the whole modes thing until I realized that they are scales on their own right.

I’ll be glad to give you some guidance if you start a thread in the Music Theory section of the forums. :)

Ok thanks man. Im probably getting a bit ahead of myself, i understood that modes are scales within scales and since the minor scale uses different intervals than the major, it would stand to reason that the mode notes would be slightly different , consistent with the difference in major/minor scale notes.

Thinking of Modes as the Major Scale starting on a different degree leads to confusion and frustration.
Many people think that if they have a Cmaj chord playing on the back; and they start the C major Scale from the 4th degree
(F -G - A - B - C - D - E) somehow they think that they are playing a C Lydian.
They are not. They are still playing a C major Scale.

The set of notes you see above correspond to F Lydian not C Lydian.
But, in order to get the characteristic Lydian flavor you should play that set of notes over an F major chord.
Fmaj chord. (F, A, C)
F Lydian Mode. (F -G - A - B - C - D - E)

Now, if what you want to do is play a C Lydian you’d play a Cmaj chord and over it you play this set of notes:
(C - D - E - F# - G - A - B)

If you got confused by what I just said, do this:
Record yourself playing a Cmaj chord for a few bars.
Play it back in a loop.
Pick up your guitar and try the following Modes:

C Ionian. (C, D, E, F, G, A, B)
C Lydian. (C, D, E, F#, G, A, B)
C Mixolydian. (C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb) This is a Dominant Mode, more on that later. For now go ahead and play it.

You should hear the difference and the “flavor” of each mode.
Once you get those sounds in your head, you will be able to call them at will when you are playing.
Make sense? :)

So if i understand you correctly.....if I play the C Ionian scale from D to D i will in fact be playing the Dorian mode in D. So rather than starting at a different root in the same scale, the correct way is to find the corresponding Ionian scale by counting down from the mode number (in this case Dorian is the second mode so D=2) counting down one step takes me to C so i play the C major scale but start on the D note.
So the only difference in the D minor scale and the Dorian mode in the key of D, is that you play a B instead of a Bb as in a normal Dminor scale. Right?
I'll try your exercise when i get home...kind of hard to visualize how one note can make much of a difference in the overall feel...

Im really not attempting to become a theory whiz, just looking to break out of my monotonous/predictable patterns :)

Yeah, if you play (D, E, F, G, A, B, C) over a Dm chord; then you are indeed playing a D Dorian.
And if you play (D, E, F, G, A, Bb, C) over a Dm Chord; you are playing a D minor Scale or D Aeolian.

Only problem is, you are still thinking about the Major Scale.
And you may get confused at some point if you keep doing that.

So, your reasoning should be something along this lines:
- Ok, I’ve got a Dm Chord playing behind.
- There are a couple of scales I can use over that chord such as: D Dorian,
D Minor Pentatonic, D Blues, D Phrygian, D Harmonic Minor, etc.
- Do I want a bluesy feel or do I want an exotic sound.

The good thing is that you understand now, just try to break away from the habit of thinking about the major scale.
And you will enjoy the unique sound of each mode without having to think what major scale you should play and what degree you should start from.

I know that the easiest way to learn the modes on the guitar is to take a “Major Scale Pattern” and then just start on a different note to play an specific Mode.
But I’ve seen many frustrated guitarists who know the “Mode Patterns” by heart, but don’t know how to use them.

And yes, changing one note makes a huge difference.
Isn’t just one note the difference between a major and a minor chord? :)

Thanks, your response is really helpful. I think its starting to gel in my mind in terms of the logic, which is encouraging, but doesnt mean squat if I cant apply it. So your track will be a good test....took a shot at it last night and got a basic theme, just want to experiment a little more before posting it.