Originally Posted by: jimmynitcherI could understand you saying Phrygian if the bass player was playing c's and I played the E Ionian notes as that is the third degree of the key we are in, but if he plays E's and I played with c scale wouldn't that be the sixth degree or Aeolian?

E ionian notes would be E major scale: e, f#, g#, a, b, c#, d#.

I think you may have misunderstood.

If was playing these notes and only these notes all the time all over the guitar:

c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c

Then it would sound like I am playing the C major scale, because that is what I would be playing. But which mode am I playing?

It could be C ionian, it could also be D dorian, it could be E phrygian, it could be F lydian, it could be G mixolydian, it could be A aeolian, it could be B locrian. (I checked that four times. :) )

But if the bass player starts playing low notes along with me (while I am playing these notes - c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c), he is basically going to provide an auditory frame of reference.

If the bass player starts playing low C's it will have the effect of making it sound like I am playing in C ionian - regardless of which of these notes I start and end on: c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c. If I start on the e and play: e, f, g, a, b, c, d, e, it will still sound like C ionian, just with me starting on the third note of that mode; which is a neat effect actually, because it will sound like I am suggesting a harmony of a third.

If the bass player starts playing low E's it will have the effect of making it sound like I am playing in E phrygian - regardless of which of these notes I start and end on: c, d, e, f, g, a, b, c. If I start on the c, it will sound like I am starting on the sixth degree of the E phrygian mode.

Now as soon as the bass player changes notes, or plays a line that is more complex than pumping one note over and again, the frame of reference changes. It would sound like we are still in one key (C major) but changing modes.

You could still look at it like only one mode, but now it would depend upon all the notes and in which order the bass player was playing them.

If the bass player played this: CCCC-DDDD-EEEE-DDDD-C. Then it would sound as if he is suggesting ionian degrees 1-2-maj3-2-1. It doesn't necessarily matter what order you play the notes of C major in, it is going to sound like you are soloing in C ionian.

If the bass player played this: EEEE-FFFF-EEEE-DDDD-E. Then it would sound as if he is suggesting phrygian degrees 1-flat2-1-min7-1. It doesn't necessarily matter what order you play the notes of C major in, it is going to sound like you are soloing in E phrygian.

Try it! There is no substitute for doing and hearing it for yourself.

The point is that the auditorily strong note is going to sound like the primary note and therefore the root of the music at that point. This can be accomplished by which note the bass player (or the primary melody) starts and ends on. Or just which note it ends on (sounds like that is the "goal" of the line). Or just which note happens the most and will therefore be the most often sounding.

If you need more help, PM me. :) Sorry if the other discussions are distracting. Perhaps a forum mod could preen posts to a more appropriately related thread or a new thread.