Originally Posted by: SilimtaoI can understand your saying E phrygian is "based" on C major- as a point of reference and jumping off point to getting the hang of theory.[/quote]
Using the phrase based on is perhaps part of the trouble here.
The E phrygian mode is derived from the C major scale. More generally, the phrygian mode is derived from the major scale; phyrgian is the third mode of the major scale.
If you start playing a major scale on the third scale degree and play up an octave then you get the phrygian mode.
The only problem with light487's chart is that one cannot SEE the scale intervals. For example:
Phrygian
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - Relative positions to C Major scale
E F G A B C D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - E Phrygian scale
This is all well and good but it does not show the most important information: the intervals that make the scale or mode sound the way it does and why it has a totally unique sound.
To be fair, this is implied, but only if you already know the theory. If you don't know the theory, then you are missing the most important part.
E Phrygian mode:
E (HS) F (WS) G (WS) A (WS) B (HS) C (WS) D (WS) E
1 (HS) flat2 (WS) min3 (WS) 4 (WS) 5 (HS) min6 (WS) min7 (WS) 1
No other mode (or scale) has that unique, exact pattern of intervals in between the scale degrees. That is why phrygian is phrygian and nothing else is phrygian.Originally Posted by: SilimtaoHowever, how about just looking at the intervals that make up X scale and leave it at that?[/quote]
Yes, good point. However, don't forget, all these things are integrated into a seamless whole.
[QUOTE=Silimtao]If you look at every scale being "based" on something else, then what is a major scale "based" on? The 6th degree of the E phrygian?
The E phrygian mode is derived from the C major scale. The major scale is the source. The major scale is more fundamental; at the foundation of the musical theory heirarchy. The major scale is based up physics (the acoustical nature of sound) and human hearing (the physiology of the ear) and human mental capabilities (the human mind's ability to mentally grasp, remember and organize pure tones into specific, discreet patterns).
[QUOTE=Silimtao]I think what's confused me most, is, classical theory, and "jazz" theory often don't mesh very well.
I know some people suggest ways of looking at certain aspects of theory that can be confusing. And yes, some people contradict themselves.
However, just to be clear, there is no contradiction inherent in music theory.
This is an interesting point, though. I know that jazz players are sometimes "fast and loose" with their theoretical observations. Whereas classical players are typically much more precise in their observations.
So a classical player might make a severe distinction between 3 slightly different types of cadences (based upon the voice leading). But a jazz player might look at all 3 and say, "Those are all just two-five-one." :p
To bring this whole thing back to original point ...
The reason we have different scales, modes and chords is to achieve different sounds. The reason those different sounds exist is because of the unique pattern of intervals in any given scale, mode or chord.
Learn the intervals of any given pattern. Then, learn how the intervals of that pattern are integrated with the next set of intervals in the next pattern.
