Originally Posted by: light487Right.

See that's what I was trying to say but in another way. See.. I don't know where every single note on the entire fretboard is.. I don't think I ever will to be honest. :o

So what I do is I go...

1. I need to play E Phrygian.
2. E Phrygian is based on the C Major scale.
3. Find C Major scale on guitar (in the 3 or 4 moveable shapes I know how to play it)
4. Start from (and end on) the 3rd degree/note of those C Major scale shapes.

Ideally I would like to know where each note is on the guitar. Ideally I would like to be able to work in terms of raised 4ths and lowered 7ths because that's how theory people tend to talk about scales.. but I am a very practical person, though also analytical and I get easily confused by all of that...

Conventional theory is great if you understand it.. but I tend not to understand it till I make it work for me.. then the methodology I used to understand it becomes my theory, not the original "correct" theory. :) I think it's great to be able to have 2 or 3 different ways of looking at the same thing because if someone is not getting it by one method, they can always look at the other method until understanding hits, then what the original person was saying starts to make sense too. :)

So if I grab my little thing again:

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14

Ionian
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - Relative positions to C Major scale
C D E F G A B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - I added these lines but I don't really see how it helps
if you didn't already understand the theory stuff in the
first place.

Dorian
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 - Relative positions to C Major scale
D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - D Dorian scale

Phrygian
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - Relative positions to C Major scale
E F G A B C D
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 - E Phrygian scale


You can see my methodology of finding the E Phrygian and ANY Phrygian mode, not the true theory of it...

Far be it for me to try to explain music theory to anyone, but here's my take on your thinking light- ideally, you may see things in a different way.

I can understand your saying E phrygian is "based" on C major- as a point of reference and jumping off point to getting the hang of theory. However, how about just looking at the intervals that make up X scale and leave it at that? Follow what I'm saying? If you look at every scale being "based" on something else, then what is a major scale "based" on? The 6th degree of the E phrygian?

I guess what moved me to post this is, when I had a handful of lessons with the late, great, Lenny Breau he'd talk about different scales all the time, and for me to even begin to understand what he was talking about, I thought as you did- I had to find a "base" to get a hang of what he was talking about. But he said pretty much what Chris said- x scale IS x scale. Lenny really didn't talk much about x scale being relative to anything. Lenny wasn't classically trained, and often had trouble articulating what he was trying to teach, but in the end, he just said, "man, a scale is just a scale. Just memorize how they sound." Suuuure. But, follow what I'm saying? I dunno if I'm making sense, but when I was at Berklee, we were taught to view things as you're looking at them- I'm not saying you're right or wrong; I'm definitely in no position to say either. I'm just trying to look at it from a totally different perspective so I understand better, as I'm as confused as the next guy when it comes to theory. I think what's confused me most, is, classical theory, and "jazz" theory often don't mesh very well.

In a nutshell (yeah, I know my nutshells are often very big), I guess I'm trying to say if you look at a scale, know the intervals that make them, you wont need to look for "home base", because that particular (non major) scale IS home base. Am I making any sense here?