Scales and Scale Construction

Hello everyone, first let me just say how much I love the sight and that it's helped an essential newbie like me. Thanks! :)

So basically, I'm not sure if I'm retarded or if I'm just over complicating things. I've been trying to figure out scales and I've been looking at a few things here and reading around the internet and it's only made it worse. First, http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=363 that's a diatonic scale right? Meaning 7 notes per scale?

Now, the tricky part... reading through http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296 in determining the notes of the c major pentatonic scale is there a particular reason that we drop the 4th and 7th notes? And likewise with the a minor pentatonic, and the pentatonic pattern in general... is it just an arbitrary decision based on notes that sound well together or is there some pattern/trick to it?

Also, http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10348&s_id=296 is that for any major? Like C-major, d-major, etc? If so, how would you differentiate them? I found this: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/scales/major_pentatonic_scales.html which seems to indicate that it's just based on shifting the pentatonic scale up and down the fretboard?

Yet another question, the numbered circles represent the order to play the notes in, yes?

Alright, I'm going to stop here because I don't want to be a pest and I'm pretty sure if I keep going I may confuse somebody else :) Thanks in advance for any info/links/advice anybody could recommend :)

Originally Posted by: strideknightHello everyone, first let me just say how much I love the sight and that it's helped an essential newbie like me. Thanks! :)

So basically, I'm not sure if I'm retarded or if I'm just over complicating things. I've been trying to figure out scales and I've been looking at a few things here and reading around the internet and it's only made it worse. First, http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=363 that's a diatonic scale right? Meaning 7 notes per scale?

Now, the tricky part... reading through http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296 in determining the notes of the c major pentatonic scale is there a particular reason that we drop the 4th and 7th notes? And likewise with the a minor pentatonic, and the pentatonic pattern in general... is it just an arbitrary decision based on notes that sound well together or is there some pattern/trick to it?

Also, http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10348&s_id=296 is that for any major? Like C-major, d-major, etc? If so, how would you differentiate them? I found this: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/scales/major_pentatonic_scales.html which seems to indicate that it's just based on shifting the pentatonic scale up and down the fretboard?

Yet another question, the numbered circles represent the order to play the notes in, yes?

Alright, I'm going to stop here because I don't want to be a pest and I'm pretty sure if I keep going I may confuse somebody else :) Thanks in advance for any info/links/advice anybody could recommend :)

I'll try to reply when I am work today.. there's a lot of questions there and I don't have the time to answer them properly right now. May be Chris (an instructor) will come and beat me to it but if not, I will try to answer them later today, from work.

Originally Posted by: strideknightFirst, http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=363 that's a diatonic scale right? Meaning 7 notes per scale?
[/quote]
Yes. But not only a "7 note scale". A particular group of 7 notes that are determined by the intervals in between the notes and the distance of each note from the root note. "Dia-" doesn't mean "seven", it actually means "through" as in "through the tones (notes)".

Originally Posted by: strideknight ...reading through http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=296 in determining the notes of the c major pentatonic scale is there a particular reason that we drop the 4th and 7th notes? And likewise with the a minor pentatonic, and the pentatonic pattern in general... is it just an arbitrary decision based on notes that sound well together or is there some pattern/trick to it?[/quote]
They were developed in order to achieve a particular sound. As with all scales, we as musicians are interested in how the result sounds. The major and minor pentatonic scales were essentially "derived" (actually organized) from the diatonic scales historically after the fact in order to have two complimentary derivative scales that use the same pattern but with different scale degrees in the positions of the pattern.

So, in major the 4th and major 7th scale degrees are avoided. And in minor the 2nd and minor 6th scale degrees are avoided. And look at the patterns to see that those all match which scales degrees are avoided in both patterns. Make sense?
[QUOTE=strideknight]
Also, http://www.guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=10348&s_id=296 is that for any major? Like C-major, d-major, etc? If so, how would you differentiate them? I found this: http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/lessons/scales/major_pentatonic_scales.html which seems to indicate that it's just based on shifting the pentatonic scale up and down the fretboard?

Yes! Keep the pattern the same and move it up and down the fretboard. Where ever the root note is (the circled number one) that is the root note of the scale and gives the scale it's name.
[QUOTE=strideknight]
Yet another question, the numbered circles represent the order to play the notes in, yes?

NO! The circled numbers represent the scale degrees. This is the most important part of the visualizing method I am teaching. Those numbers represent the interval distance from the root note. They are the very reason why any given scale sounds like it does; why they all have their own unique sound. Or conversely, why all major scales (or minor, etc.) have a similar sound just slightly higher or lower in pitch.

Hope this helps. Let us know. :)

Yup.. he beat me to it :)

Originally Posted by: CSchlegelThey were developed in order to achieve a particular sound. As with all scales, we as musicians are interested in how the result sounds. The major and minor pentatonic scales were essentially "derived" (actually organized) from the diatonic scales historically after the fact in order to have two complimentary derivative scales that use the same pattern but with different scale degrees in the positions of the pattern.[/QUOTE]

Alright, I just wanted to make sure. I don't have a problem with arbitrary stuff, I just like to know that's what it is so I don't try and keep seeing patterns in it :)

Originally Posted by: CSchlegelSo, in major the 4th and major 7th scale degrees are avoided. And in minor the 2nd and minor 6th scale degrees are avoided. And look at the patterns to see that those all match which scales degrees are avoided in both patterns. Make sense?

Yup! Where I was getting caught up was that I was just looking at the C major and A minor. Since they're both the same notes and all the natural notes it was messing me up.

[QUOTE=CSchlegel]Yes! Keep the pattern the same and move it up and down the fretboard. Where ever the root note is (the circled number one) that is the root note of the scale and gives the scale it's name.

NO! The circled numbers represent the scale degrees. This is the most important part of the visualizing method I am teaching. Those numbers represent the interval distance from the root note. They are the very reason why any given scale sounds like it does; why they all have their own unique sound. Or conversely, why all major scales (or minor, etc.) have a similar sound just slightly higher or lower in pitch.

Hope this helps. Let us know.

Thank you very much :) It's actually making sense now, hehe. I sat down with some blank fret paper and worked out all the scales and whatnot myself as well which helped alot in visualizing it. Now I just have to memorize the shapes themselves.

Thank you very much for the info, a huge help, and I love your lessons, been working through them :)

Take it easy!
Dave

...I just like to know that's what it is so I don't try and keep seeing patterns in it

Keep trying to find patterns in everything to do with Music.. the more patterns you know, the more variety you will have.