need help on putting it all together.

I have been playing guitar for about a year but without any real direction, I've learned chords and worked on scales but now that I've learned about them i want to know how it all fits together. How can I take the chords I've learned and turn them into a progression or a song. If somebody could point me to some lessons to get me there it would be greatly appreciated.

Well. You know, when I started writing songs, I would just take chords put em together so they sounded right, but it prolly wasn't the right choice. It was ok, but songs don't sound just quite right unless you're using a scale. So I suggest that you get a nice scale, I suggest C cuz its the all natural scale(no flats or sharps) and you just get a nice I IV V(1, 4, 5) progression going. Hopefully you know the importance of that. You know, just make a simple progression, and you know just get creative. Remember, don't always follow the rules. For example, in a major scale, it goes I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii half diminished(don't know the symbol for diminished), and then I again. Which means one, four and five, are major, two, three and six are minor, and seven is half diminished. But I don't follow those rules all the time. Especially with seven, it just sounds horrible. I don't always get my 2,3, and 6 all minor. Scales, well, if you want to learn improvisation and soloing(kind of the same thing) you NEED to learn the pentatonic scales. It's easy to learn and to remember, and it fits well over most things. But scales like major and minor are as well key to anything with guitar. But really, I suggest, just you know going into keys, and getting simple progressions. And even though the I IV V is a lil ez and too, eh, idk, just, it just doesn't sound right, like you hear it in lots of stuff. That's cuz its good. But sometimes you may not even hear it in the song when its rly their. One of my favorite beatles songs, Revolution is basically just I IV V.

Here's something to help:
http://www.guitartricks.com/tutorial.php?input=426

Also you will want to learn about "Chord Leading".. I'm not sure what the correct terminology is for this because I did a quick search for it and couldn't find anything about it. It's very important to know what chord naturally leads on to another chord, makes things so much easier when creating your own chord progressions. For example, the V chord always wants to lead back to the I (root) chord. I have the list here somewhere...


I Leads To Any chord
ii Leads To IV, V, vii'
iii Leads To ii, IV, vi
IV Leads To I, iii, V, vii'
V Leads To I
vi Leads To ii, IV, V, I
vii' Leads To I, iii



Think of the most standard rock chord progression, the I-IV-V progression. The first chord: I leads to any of the other 6 chords, in this case IV. Now from IV it has to go somewhere.. it naturally leads to towards the I and the V but can also quite happily lead to iii or vii'. You can still go to the other chords but it's not usually going to like going there.. it's all a bit subjective really. For simplicity let's use the key of C Major. The first chord (I) will be C Major, the 4th chord (IV) will be F Major and the fifth chord (V) will be G Major. If you play a I (C Major) then a V (G Major) you will notice that there is an "unfinished" feel to the musical phrase.. this is what is referred to as unresolved tension. To resolve the tension, play the I (C Major) again.. see how it feels complete now.. like you could end the song on that chord?

Anyway..Start with the lessons on that link and let us know how you go..

Thanks for the help guys that table will come in handy down the road. The lesson went smoothly, I've done some work walking form chord to chord before. "Chord leading" Is exactly what I've had in mind but I'm having a hard time coming up with much. I've heard to it referred to as tonality but I'm not sure if thats right.I've done a little bit of work with the basic I IV V, although i never though of ii, iii, vi, and vii being minor until now. But what about chords like A7, dsus, and D/F# where do they come into play? Am I thinking about this to much, is it more just playing by ear or are the more steady rules to this?

It really depends on your preference. Really, sometimes I'll just geta nice good chord progression out of a key, or sometimes I'll just hear something in my head and get it by ear. And A7 and dsus, D/F#, they're just chord variations. They come into play whenever you want em to. If you want to have a 7 or Maj7 chord in your song, that's fine, go ahead, variety is good. It's really all theory though, to figure out chords like A7, dsus, and D/F#(that ones pretty explanitory). Like for example, A7 is an a chords but you're playing an open g note. The reason is is because your saying play the 7, but since it's not a Maj/or7 (which is the 7th in the Major scale) you flat the 7th, so the 7th of A, is G#, and ifyou flat g# you get G. So that's how you get A7. D/F# just means play F# as the bass. Dsus, I forget what sus's are? Aren't they where like you add. Like wouldn't Csus4 be like playing a C but with an F on the d string. I don't remember about the sus, so just look it up. But someone can confirm my "idea" i guess with sus's. I mean, practice is all it takes. I remember writing songs, and they just get better as you go along. Trust me, you won't get good at it at first. But don't forget soul, you need soul. There's a song, all it is the 1 and 4, d -> g, over and over which some other chords in the chorus, but it's such an awesome song cuz it has soul. And I think going by ear is a good way to just start writing songs, cuz at first I had lots of good tunes, then they got more bland, so I have to start hearing more melodies than real tunes, and kind of variate em on the guitar so they're not so "bleh". So I suggest just getting all those good ones out first. And intervals, ask about em here, are a very good way to write songs.

Extended chords generally are fairly equal to their non-extended counterparts when it comes to chord leading.. someone who is more into jazz might be able to handle the specifics of this.. I don't really know to be honest. My thoughts are that if it's an A7.. then that is just as good as AMaj when it comes to chord leading.

The D/F# is called a slash-chord. All it means is that the note following the / is the bass note. When you play a chord, the bass note is always the root note. However, if you want to play a D Major chord with a F# bass note, you have to write it as D/F#.. it's not a F# chord.. it's a D with an F# bass.


||-----|--2--|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|--3--|-----|
||-----|--1--|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|-----|-----|
||-----|--T--|-----|-----|


The T is your thumb.. you curl it over the top of the fret board to hold down the F# note on the bottom-E string. In Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here", there are two slash-chords. There is DMaj/F# and CMaj/G..

The chord progression goes: GMaj12, CMaj/G, DMaj/F#, Amin. Then it repeats with the C and D swapped around.

I've already shown the D/F#. The other two odd chords are:

GMaj12
||-----|-----|--3--|-----|
||-----|-----|--3--|-----|
||-----|-----|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|-----|-----|
||-----|--1--|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|--2--|-----|

CMaj/G
||-----|-----|-----|-----|
||--1--|-----|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|-----|-----|
||-----|--2--|-----|-----|
||-----|-----|--3--|-----|
||-----|-----|--4--|-----|


Oh and just to clarify: sus = suspended (but you think think of it as substituted because you are substituting the 3rd with something else.. usually usually either the 4th or the 2nd.. hence why you see so many Dsus4's around.. lol)

add = added.. basically you are adding a note to the chord.. So Dadd4 will sound completely different to Dsus4. The chord construction "formula" for DMajor would be 1-3-5, where 1 = D. Then for Dsus4 it would be 1-4-5, and for Dadd4 it would be 1-3-4-5.

What a lot of people sometimes forget is that the guitar is an instrument that plays music. I mean, when learning, it is not only important to learn to play the instrument but also learn musical theory aside from that. For doing that, in addition to learning things on the net, just go to the library and borrow a book, not on guitar, but on music theory in general. This will really help put things together and make a person not only a better guitarist, but a better musician.

Originally Posted by: guitarpeachI've heard to it referred to as tonality but I'm not sure if thats right.[/quote]
Tonality is the overall correct term for Functional Harmony - or how musical objects (scales, chords) relate to each other. The more specific concept (and central "engine") within Tonality and Functional Harmony work is Voice Leading. Voice leading is regarding ALL the notes present in a piece of music as part of a melodic thread.

Originally Posted by: guitarpeach
I've done a little bit of work with the basic I IV V, although i never though of ii, iii, vi, and vii being minor until now. But what about chords like A7, dsus, and D/F# where do they come into play?

Same as any other note or chord: it's either structural or ornamental.

Structural means it has a specific function that helps relate one chord to the next. It can be a resolving 7th tone (the 7th in an A7 resolving to the major 3 in D - note G moving to F# - in A7 (V) - D (I) progression). It could be a common tone that is shared from one chord to the next in the progression (holding onto the F# as the melody note changing from a D to G major 7). Inversions, like D/F# (a first inversion D major) might be used as a functional way of getting from a G major to an E minor so that while the chords are "leaping around" viewed from their roots (G-D-E) the bass line makes them change smoothly by being linear (G-F#-E).

Ornamental means that you simply like the sound of it but it doesn't necessarily functional advance the melody or chord progression. This happens when you play a A major while changing it to Asus4-A-Asus2 and so forth.
[QUOTE=guitarpeach] Am I thinking about this to much, is it more just playing by ear or are the more steady rules to this?

There is no such thing as thinking too much. :) I did a view posts on this so what comes next is a copy paste summary.

--------------------------------------------------------------
The Basics of Functional Harmony
--------------------------------------------------------------

After learning and playing a good number of songs, music students will notice that certain chord progressions keep being used over and again. Many times I've heard the question, "Why do we use these three chords - I, IV, V - as the standard chord progression?" In order to understand the answer to this we need an overview of Functional Harmony.

Let's take a step back, start at the very beginning and check our premises.

Why do we bother to change chords at all in a song? Why not simply use one chord all the way through? It's possible to do, after all; and some songs actually do this. The reason we change chords and use more than one in a song is to provide variety and thereby make the music sounds as if it going somewhere. Hopeful somewhere purposeful. Once you truly understand that answer, it can help a great deal in making different chord progressions and thereby make your playing much more richly detailed and beautiful.

Functional Harmony is the science of understanding how changing chords can suggest goal-directed motion in music.

Building a chord on each note of the major scale results in the standard series of major and minor chords that are identified by Roman numerals:

I - "1 chord" is Tonic (or Root)
ii -"2 chord" is Sub-Dominant
iii - "3 chord" is Intermediate (or Mediant)
IV - "4 chord" is Sub-Dominant
V - "5 chord" is Dominant
vi - "6 chord" is Intermediate (or Sub-Mediant)
vii dim - "7 chord" is Dominant

Each of these chords has a specific function as follows:
Tonic - I
Intermediate - iii, VI (can also serve as substitute for I in deceptive cadence)
Sub-dominant - ii, IV
Dominant - V, vii diminished

Baroque, Classical, Romantic & Modern music - all follow this basic outline of Functional Harmony regarding chord progressions:

Tonic, then Intermediate, then Sub-dominant, then Dominant, return to Tonic.

This can, for example, be reduced to:

Tonic, Dominant, Tonic
Dominant, Tonic
Tonic, Intermediate, Dominant, Tonic
Tonic, Sub-dominant, Dominant, Tonic

In any of these cases, notice the primary goal is always the proper cadence:

Dominant, Tonic

It is also possible to prolong the progression, for example:

Tonic, Intermediate, Tonic, Sub-dominant, Intermediate, Dominant, Tonic.

Notice the goal remains the same: the Dominant to Tonic motion called a [/b]cadence[/b]. It is of course possible to not use the Dominant - Tonic resolution in a song (or part of a song). This is a useful effect in it's own right. It can make the music sound more open-ended, or ongoing. Or even restless or wandering, due to not having a proper resolution as a "resting point" or end goal.

From here we need to understand the concept of secondary dominant.

--------------------------------------------------------------
The Basics of Secondary Dominant
--------------------------------------------------------------

If you are in C major, you can construct a chord progression such as:

I, iii, ii, V, I
(being: C maj, E min, D min, G7, C maj)

In order to "fill out" the piece, make it more beautiful, richly complex & "prepare for the arrival" of the E min from the C maj you can do this:

I, ii of iii, V of iii, iii...& so forth
(being: C maj, F# min, B7, E min...)

So you have deviated from pure C major, and are temporarily in the key of E minor but only long enough to prepare for its arrival, then you return to key of C major. This is the concept called Secondary Dominant. It is a Dominant chord inserted into a sequence of chords that creates a temporary Dominant-Tonic cadential resolution goal that is not in the home key.

It is sometimes referred to as an Applied Dominant.

Notice the concept remains the same, though. The reason we use different chords is to provide variety & interest. And the reason we play certain chords in certain orders is to provide (or avoid) a sense of goal directed motion in the music.

This type of thing is not solely found in classical and jazz. It is the exact thing that happens in the beginning of the Beatles song "Yesterday":

G - F# min - B7 - E min
I - ii of vi - V of vi - vi

Typically, the secondary dominant is referred to in a chord progression as the "five of" whatever chord it is preparing. Because the vii dim chord can also be used as a dominant function you may also see "seven of" as a way of preparing for chord.

I really need to put this stuff in a lesson so I just link it all in the future. Hope this helps.

This is helpful, but at this point could be, and needs to be condensed into a much simpler version. Remember, a lot of us reading this will not understand 10% of what was just written. A lot of great music was written, like you said, with one, two, or three chords.

Originally Posted by: pennyanmurphThis is helpful, but at this point could be, and needs to be condensed into a much simpler version. Remember, a lot of us reading this will not understand 10% of what was just written.[/quote]
I honestly don't know how much more I could condense it than I already have. I thought I did a good job of putting in one forum post what is typically contained in a whole chapter (or two!) of a music theory book. :)
[QUOTE=pennyanmurph]A lot of great music was written, like you said, with one, two, or three chords.

I did not say that. I don't know of any song I would consider great that only has one chord.

I only stated that it is possible to make a song with only one chord and that it has been done. I don't know of any with only two chords either that suit my personal taste. I would have to go with at least a bare minimum of three chords. And they have to be voice lead with competence. And personally I like a little more complexity than that.

But this doesn't mean there is an automatic equation stating "X number of chords equals a good or beautiful song". Whether or not a song is well constructed has more to do with how the voices in the chords are organized than simply the number of chords.

Very succinctly written and a great overview of some terms and concepts with which we should all become familiar.

This would make a nice video lesson; if students could hear the cadences and see them, they would clearly understand the resolution and concepts to which you refer.

I've read several of your threads, and am becoming very fond of your 'mode of communication'.
:) ..Thanks for that!

SarinaJ

Originally Posted by: guitarpeachI have been playing guitar for about a year but without any real direction, I've learned chords and worked on scales but now that I've learned about them i want to know how it all fits together. How can I take the chords I've learned and turn them into a progression or a song. If somebody could point me to some lessons to get me there it would be greatly appreciated.

This may help you:
http://guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=11389&hrv=no

Doug

I'd suggest listening to your favorite tunes- you'd be surprised to hear how they may all be using the same chord progressions. All musicians have been influenced by someone else- I think Hendrix was influenced by Curtis Mayfield (someone correct me if I'm wrong here.), Billy Joel by the Beatles.

I agree with the poster that you have to learn at least some theory- unless you're one of those savants that can do everything by ear, like Lenny Breau (google him). I wish I had studied more theory when I started playing.

And another thing- don't forget the silence 'tween the notes.

Originally Posted by: SilimtaoAnd another thing- don't forget the silence 'tween the notes.

Yeh Paul McCartney was very into the random and non-musical sounds. He went to see this performance once of a experimentalist pianist who didn't actually play a single note on the piano. He opened the piano and closed it.. but other than that, the entire performance was silence.. except for the sounds around him.. hehe.. a bit extreme of course.. but a great example that music really has no rules and the space between the notes is probably more important than the notes themselves.

Hi Light,

Though I personally hate Wings, I think McCartney is one of the most underrated bassists in rock/pop. He and Jack Bruce.