shred pickin!

my left hand speed is perfect, i can sweep/legato like a madman, its just im not sure how to hold the pick =/

i want to be able to switch to tremelo, pinched harmonics, chords and fast alternate picking or sweeping and tapping very quickly, as of now i use my thumb, pointer and middle finger to hold the pick, is that ok? it makes it a lot easier to switch to tapping quickly.

and im still not sure which way to tilt it, if at all, i learned to tremelo by tilting the far side of the pick (that is the side closer to the neck/head) up twards the sky, i can pick insanely fast like this, but i go slow if im doing single notes instead of tremelo and its hard to do pinch harmonics or switch to chords, if i point the near side of the pick twards the sky, i can pick single notes faster but cant really switch to tremeloing fast enough.

Originally Posted by: jamesplaysgitarmy left hand speed is perfect, i can sweep/legato like a madman, its just im not sure how to hold the pick =/

i want to be able to switch to tremelo, pinched harmonics, chords and fast alternate picking or sweeping and tapping very quickly, as of now i use my thumb, pointer and middle finger to hold the pick, is that ok? it makes it a lot easier to switch to tapping quickly.

and im still not sure which way to tilt it, if at all, i learned to tremelo by tilting the far side of the pick (that is the side closer to the neck/head) up twards the sky, i can pick insanely fast like this, but i go slow if im doing single notes instead of tremelo and its hard to do pinch harmonics or switch to chords, if i point the near side of the pick twards the sky, i can pick single notes faster but cant really switch to tremeloing fast enough.

You kinda want the near side a bit tilted towards the sky, but not much. This helps with PH's, tapping, sweeping, and a slew of other things. The pick should be straight with the string so as to make up and downstroke picking equally accessible. Also, when tremelo picking, the idea is to use less of the pick, not to tilt it more to one side or the other. Lastly, the less you think about going faster, and the faster you'll become. If you need anymore advice, just ask.

well, less of the pick = less friction.
which is the same thing as tilting it, so i should try to tremelo by just picking really fast?

Originally Posted by: jamesplaysgitarmy left hand speed is perfect, i can sweep/legato like a madman, its just im not sure how to hold the pick =/

i want to be able to switch to tremelo, pinched harmonics, chords and fast alternate picking or sweeping and tapping very quickly, as of now i use my thumb, pointer and middle finger to hold the pick, is that ok? it makes it a lot easier to switch to tapping quickly.

and im still not sure which way to tilt it, if at all, i learned to tremelo by tilting the far side of the pick (that is the side closer to the neck/head) up twards the sky, i can pick insanely fast like this, but i go slow if im doing single notes instead of tremelo and its hard to do pinch harmonics or switch to chords, if i point the near side of the pick twards the sky, i can pick single notes faster but cant really switch to tremeloing fast enough.

that's really funny I am having this *exact same thing* in my playing buddy. I can play legato very fast but I struggle to cleanly pick anything faster than 16th notes at 100 BPM.

I went out and bought "Speed Mechanics for Lead guitar" off Amazon like a year ago or something and had forgotten I even had that book. Then I was watching Dream Theater on HD Net a couple days ago and John Petrucci tore the crowds faces off (sorry that's my metaphor for playing face licks) and I noticed exactly what light487 said happened when he was picking each note. John wasn't player faster than Joe Satriani (I realize that's a whole other debate, but I'm guessing by the speed of movement of the left fingers) so why did it *sound* like Petrucci was playing at lighting speeds? And it appears it's because he's picking every note. (and that's he incredibly gifted of course).

So I went to Amazon again ... bought some Petrucci books and DVD's and noticed I had that book I hadn't looked at yet from over a year or so ago. So for 2 days now I've been literally looking at the first few exercises and WOW what a difference.

To answer the original poster this book recommends being close to parallel with your pick, but not exactly parallel, which is what many of the very skilled folks here have said. And use a metronome and take it SLOW. And I'm still trying to figure out whether to anchor my pinky and or ring finger or not. I see Satch and Petrucci anchor their hand with teh pinky and ring finger most of the time when they aren't picking fast runs. But when playing a fast run Satch picks up his anchored fingers (and whole hand at times) while Petrucci seems to be able to alternate pink anchored or not anchored equally well. So perhaps it will really come down to whatever you are more comfortable with, and honestly there might be cases where 1 is better than another (for muting unplayed strings for instance).

I've always had a bad habit of trying something where it's comfortable and then pushing up to impossible speed too quick because I get bored. But this time I resigned myself to stay within my reasonable boundaraies. In my case I started off playing chromatic scales (1-2-3-4, 2-3-4-5, 3-4-5-6, ...) up and then back down (15-14-13-12, 14-13-12-11, ...) on a single string (once per string) alternate picking 16th notes (4 notes per CLICK on the metronome) at around 90 BPM yesterday and today I'm already up to 120 BPM. I realize by the standards of the guys here that's laughably slow, but it's progress and I can literally feel myself getting faster. It's all clean and I finally for the first time in life feel like my right hand is taking control of the strings instead of getting in the way of my legato lol.

And james if it's any consolation I think all that legato you've been playing will help you make large gains quickly as long as you have the discipline to start slow and make small steps up in speed. One book recommned starting at 80BPM 16th notes, then move up in steps of 2BPM until you reach your "clean execution" limit, then back it down 1BPM and repeat your exercise on each string and try moving it up again.

Anyway, I hope this helps

great!
but that only brings up more questions....

how exactly do i switch to tremelo quickly?

and should i use my thumb pointer and middle finger to pick?

or just 2?

Originally Posted by: jamesplaysgitargreat!
but that only brings up more questions....

how exactly do i switch to tremelo quickly?

and should i use my thumb pointer and middle finger to pick?

or just 2?

well tremolo shouldn't be too bad if you replace the shoes on your bar so it doesn't swing all over the place and actually sits still while you play.

and as far as holding the pick goes everything I've read says it's personal preference, just make sure you don't expose too much pick.

One of the super shredders might have some better advice on that. And if so I'll gleam it off here too hehe.

hahah no not the tremelo BAR
haha (wait shouldnt it be called a vibrato bar??)

i mean tremelo picking.

Originally Posted by: jamesplaysgitarhahah no not the tremelo BAR
haha (wait shouldnt it be called a vibrato bar??)

i mean tremelo picking.

You shouldnt really be tremelo picking lead lines unless you're stressing a note, otherwise it can sound sloppy.

I would only allow a VERY small amount of the pick to extend from you fingers, and only use the index and thumb. Personally, I trem better with just two fingers, but then again Bruce Kulick and Eddie Van Halen use their thumb and middle fingers, so... It's kind of a comfort/speed matter.

Originally Posted by: jamesplaysgitarhahah no not the tremelo BAR
haha (wait shouldnt it be called a vibrato bar??)

i mean tremelo picking.

oops sorry about that!
(removes foot from mouth) ;)

um im into a lot of progressive/metal, in which there isnt really any line between lead and everything else...

Originally Posted by: Geeetar4LifeI don't hold my pick completely parallel, but it definitely isn't perpendicular. It's just a little bit tilted to fit my confort. Whatever you are comfortable with, go with it. As long as your hand is relaxed and you aren't stiff, then that's fine unless you really want to get all technical about it.

When it comes to picking faster, practice reverse picking. You gain so much more speed with reverse picking rather than one way picking. When it comes to practicing reverse picking, you can just run through some pentatonic scales and go at your own speed to get comfortable with it.
Good luck!

Yea I would like to know how to do reverse picking?
I have never heard of that before.

reverse picking is just alternate picking, up down up down stuff.

I call it reverse picking when you start with an upstroke rather than a downstroke on things like scales. Like if you're doing this scale:

http://guitartricks.com/lesson.php?input=3050&s_id=28

Instead of starting with a downstroke on the G like you normally would, start with an upstroke and continue with the whole scale that way, using alternate picking.
It gets you used to doing scales in the reverse way you're used to doing them and helps when you're in the middle of a lead...you don't have to pause for a second to go into a certain scale by downpicking.

oh.
cool.

This is directed to the original poster; didn't feel like quoting.

About 25 yrs. ago, I read a Guitar Player interview with Roy Buchanan (one of my favorite players). He was talking about his picking, and mentioned circular picking. Basically, you attack the string at a slight angle, both up and down, until the pick shape looks like this- () . You can really up your speed the tighter you can make the "circle".

Economy picking, isn't a strict alternate, up/down picking. E.g, if you're picking down, and going for the next string, you continue down- why waste time skipping over the string to come back up?

With hybrid picking, you incorporate your fingers with picking. You can be picking on a low string, then pluck something on the upper strings. I didn't know until not too long ago that Mark Knopfler didn't use a pick, but listen to his solo on Sultans of Swing. It took me forever to get those licks down using a pick, but I found it a lot easier while hybrid picking it.

I use a small teardrop shaped "jazz" pick, btw. For lead stuff, I pretty much use the very tip of the pick, and, as someone else pointed out, it makes it easier to play artificial harmonics (pinch harmonics is a new term for me; man, I'm getting old).

And, as someone pointed out- don't think, just play! But get your fundamentals down first. I've returned to playing after a big layoff, and find I'm thinking way to much- it's when I zone out and just play that I find my groove. I can pick insanely fast....but I'm not saying anything! Fast, slow, doesn't mean a thing unless you're saying something. Just my few cents.

PS: a good exercise for fast alternate picking, and at the same time learning something new, get the tab to Flight of the Bumblebee. It's mostly chromatic, so it's a great finger exercise. When you have it down, go to the nearest Guitar Center, grab a guitar, crank up an amp and wail. Grown men will cry! Women will throw their underwear at you! You'll be anointed the next GUITAR HERO! But start out sloooow......

haha yes i definitely have to learn that..


OK!

thanks you all a ton for your help, it has been invaluable,

i need one more thing.


3 fingers?
as in, thumb, pointer and middle?

or 2?

as in, thumb and middle,

using just my thumb and pointer is impossible
=(

I suppose 3 fingers on the plec is possible but I couldn't imagine holding the plec with anything other than just thumb and pointer - especially for shred runs and syncopated rhythms. Besides, this allows you to finger tap with the middle finger whenever you want while still holding the plectrum in the same position - important if you want to alternate the two seamlessly.

right on...
i guess ill just stick with middle and thumb.

Not sure sure if it has already been suggested...

Start out with a fairly light plec.. it doesn't need to be paper thin. I find that my biggest problem with shredding is the plec getting caught on the upstroke. Yes.. it's probably poor technique that is causing this, more than a fat plec but until you get a feel for the shred, I would suggest a thinner plec. Once you get a feel for moving that fast, change to your normal plec thickness and work on the technique of holding it correctly. I tend to use my thumb and pointer.

I also practise shredding on just two strings to begin with. For example, play the first 4 notes of the pentatonic minor scale.. just to get a feel for it.. once you have that feeling for it, add another 2 notes.. so now you are playing the first 6 notes in the penta-minor "pattern".. and keep adding more notes until you are comfortable. I'm up to about 6 to 8 notes now, which I can confidently shred through at extreme speeds.

Originally Posted by: jamesplaysgitarhaha yes i definitely have to learn that..

i need one more thing.
3 fingers?
as in, thumb, pointer and middle?
or 2?
as in, thumb and middle,
using just my thumb and pointer is impossible
=(

You can palm the pick when necessary, to make use of all 5 of your fingers; that will take some practice and dexterity. But palming the pick to use all 5 fingers is really difficult; it's almost like the magic trick when you palm a coin to make it seems like it has disappeared, when it's actually trapped in the fold of your palm. I just tried it again, after not doing since...forever. It's easier to "hold" the pick with your pinky and use your other 4 fingers. Lenny Breau often used a thumbpick to get use out of all 5 fingers. He was never properly recorded, but he was the most amazing player I've ever met in person.

I play some ragtime with a pick- using hybrid picking; on some other ragtime stuff, I don't use a pick at all, and just use all 5 fingers, but I've grown my nails on my right hand (been working on Clap, by Steve Howe for only, oh, THIRTY SOME ODD YEARS; I hybrid pick on this tune.)

I sometimes palm the pick when I want to pluck 5 strings at the same time (again, I just tried this; I apparently don't have the dexterity I use to, so I'd say forget it- it's more practical with a thumbpick; gives you a piano kind of sound- or maybe I imagined palming it- I dunno, Lenny showed me the weirdest most impossible stuff sometimes :confused: ) Can be done with pick, and other 3 fingers also, which is what I do more often than palming the pick.

When playing lead, I often use the pick and the middle and ring finger to reach for other strings.

I don't know really quite how to answer your question other than to say, experiment, and see what you're comfortable with.