Originally Posted by: renHmmm...
Playing sustained 16ths at 180 is something that anyone with enough time, discipline and determination can acheive. I have never believed that anyone is born with or without the capacity to achieve something.... it's all practice / application. Maybe you're born with a predisposition to be musical, but not with the skill.
It seems the 'what makes a virtuoso' question has taken over, so my thoughts on that one - Platonic... your definition of virtuoso exceeds the accepted definition by a distance, and accordingly very few players make the cut. The definition of the word, depending on source, is someone who has 'masterful technique' or 'excellent command' of their instrument in a musical context - if we use this as the benchmark, alot of the guys around here would make it. On Gilmour above - if he inspires awe, then by your definition, he is a virtuoso regardless of why that awe exists.
When I play live, I hope people cheer because they enjoyed the music, not because they assume that I read music, have a grip on theory, and have passed through music education.
We talk about speed because it's a tangible benchmark. There are many guys who play with more feel than me, but I'm faster. I think they're better, they think I am - I think it's about wanting what you don't have. That's why for the most part only people who can't play fast run down playing fast (and I did it myself once too when I couldn't :eek: )... while guys who can often focus on it to the detriment of everything else (Which I've also been guilty of back in time).
The cops don't pull you for speeding because that's the most dangerous thing on the road, they do it because it's easier to bust you for doing 80mph than it is to say they had the feeling you weren't very safe. If all the discussions on speed here had been 'Who is the most tasteful guitar player?', how would you measure it?
I don't believe my definition exceeds the normal definition, I think that people tend to overuse the word. For example, David Gilmour having an awe-inspiring command of the instrument. Does he when you put him up next to the other greats of guitar? ((Di Meola, Lucia, Holdsworth, Segovia, etc.)) You can't just compare the person to themselves when saying they have 'excellent' skill. Break the word 'excellent' down---it means to excel. How can you excel? By being better than the rest of the pack--standing head and shoulders above most others who play the instrument. Does Gilmour do this? I really do not think so....sorry.
And to be honest, you guys have taken the whole 'inspires awe' thing and run with it to include a lot of people who don't really inspire awe. If you wanted to slippery slope this, the guy down the street is a virtuoso because he inspired awe in me when I had been playing guitar for just a day. I would think that a good qualification would be---they inspire awe in other musicians. Not only that, but ask anyone why they are 'awe-struck' by David Gilmour---9/10 times they say because they like his note placement, or they like his vibrato. None of them ever say---'his technique is overwhelming--the things he was doing are just impossible.' You guys are confusing someone who simply LOVES the music with someone who is AWESTRUCK by the virtuosity someone possesses.
'Playing sustained 16ths at 180 is something that anyone with enough time, discipline and determination can acheive.'
I don't know what point you're making here. I already said this--that it takes a monumental amount of time and effort to play at 180 and above. Just because 'anyone' in theory could do it, doesn't necessarily negate the value of the skill---because everyone isn't doing it, and I don't believe everyone can.
If that were true, then everyone who woodshedded for awhile would come out as a true speed demon---hardly ever the case.
With regard to a statement like this 'other people play with more feel, but I play faster,' a virtuoso would have the feel and have the speed all in one. There are guitarists who know just when to put a fast lick in there, and their mastery is so complete that they can add subtle nuances to those fast licks to really make them 'feel' right.
Back In Black isn't a song. It's a divine call that gets channeled through five righteous dudes every thousand years or so. That's why dragons and sea monsters don't exist anymore.
