Originally Posted by: HammurabiIt looks to me like you were the one who started this argument, not the religious folks.

blah.... you guys are missing my point completely.
That's the problem with trying to discuss things on forums. You have 20 pages of stuff to say, but only a couple of paragraphs to get your point across.
Unfortunately, what usually happens is instead of taking the entire message people type, they pick out one or two sentences and concentrate on that instead of understanding your entire message as a whole.
If you go back and read my posts, there's a number of things you'll find.

1) I'm not starting an argument. I'm posting my thoughts on a subject.
(I'm not sitting here with an angry look on my face, typing with my fists pounding on the keyboard... I'm trying to spark some conversation while I'm working on converting wav files and watching South Park. I type on this forum..then I switch to somewhere else and tell a joke and come back here. ie... no subject is important enough for me to become personally involved to the point where it's actually bothering me. I'm just typing a contrary viewpoint to spark some controversy and thought on a subject that can, and has been for thousands of years, very closed minded.
Originally my point was that I neither believe nor disbelieve in God because nobody can prove whether it's true or not. This also holds the same for some scientific theories. Fine I agree with that.
I also went on to say (in short) that I find it annoying having to put up with people and their religious convictions being shoved down my throat on a daily basis.. but the second that I try to contradict anybody about religion using my own thoughts and truths, it escalates into a huge argument because a) you think people like me are closed minded b) you think I'm actually getting angry when I'm actually just sitting here watching shows and typing something to break up the boredom.
Believe me.. I'm extremely open minded about the whole subject.
Which is why I'm saying...

I don't believe or disbelieve because there is nobody on planet Earth that can actually prove that God exists.

There's no way of countering that argument because it's the absolute truth and no matter what you say about your beliefs in faith or whatever... you'll never be able to prove it.

My point is... I'll believe that there's a God when you can actually make him appear beside me here and talk to me in person. Maybe perform a couple of miracles. Tell me what the universe really is and why we're here.
Show me the afterlife... just basically prove beyond any question that God exists.
Until then, my point will never change.
Religion is based on human beliefs. It is full of falsehoods and lies. It captures people by praying on their lack of self esteem because many people need to believe in a higher power in order to get through life.
It is full of scam artists, molesters... ie... human faults
It has caused so many deaths and wars... our entire civilization is based on it (hence the reason this is the year 2007 and not 4 billion)
It foreshadows and runs everybody's life whether you want it or not.
And all of this is based on peoples 'faith' and nothing more.
I don't have faith because I need it proven to me and there's no human being on Earth who can prove right now that religion or God is truthful and actually exists.
I will never in my life believe or worship something that humans have made up out of thin air. Because it isn't actual fact.. it's a theory and nothing more.