Saddam Execution

Originally Posted by: earthman buck
I kind of agree with elklander, though. Death does seem like a pretty light sentence for a guy who killed as many people as Saddam Hussein.

Put yourself in the shoes of a person that is sitting in bed the night before they KNOW they are going to be put to death... Put yourself in the shoes of a person who is walking towards the gallows. Put yourself in the shoes of a person who has the noose tightened to their neck...

I think the mental torment of that far out weighs any that you would face while wasting away in a jail... A person sitting in jail still has the opportunity to breath...

I don't think letting Sadaam waste away in a jail cell offers any comfort to the families of people that he has murdered either... I guess it's just the way you look at it. I know that some people are pro death penalty and some aren't... So it's just another one of those things that's never going to be settled.

Originally Posted by: aschlemanPut yourself in the shoes of a person that is sitting in bed the night before they KNOW they are going to be put to death... Put yourself in the shoes of a person who is walking towards the gallows. Put yourself in the shoes of a person who has the noose tightened to their neck...

I think the mental torment of that far out weighs any that you would face while wasting away in a jail... A person sitting in jail still has the opportunity to breath...

I don't think letting Sadaam waste away in a jail cell offers any comfort to the families of people that he has murdered either... I guess it's just the way you look at it. I know that some people are pro death penalty and some aren't... So it's just another one of those things that's never going to be settled.

I'll take that over gettin beat and **** raped everyday. :rolleyes:

Yep, I don't think the Iraqi's would be giving him Doritos like we did. And how about going to sleep every night knowing you faced a day of torture, ridicule, labor or whatever they felt like doing to him that day.

^^^Yeah, exactly.

I see what you're getting at, though, aschleman. The families of the people he killed probably wouldn't get any comfort from him being in jail.

I just think that if you're going to be put to death, it's mental anguish, but it's limited. You know when the mental anguish will end. If you're in prison for the rest of your life, you are living, but you're not free, and you know you never will be again. That would mess with my head a lot more than knowing I'm about to die.

I'd take death over life in prison any day. But maybe that's just me.

Originally Posted by: earthman buck^^^Yeah, exactly.

I see what you're getting at, though, aschleman. The families of the people he killed probably wouldn't get any comfort from him being in jail.

I just think that if you're going to be put to death, it's mental anguish, but it's limited. You know when the mental anguish will end. If you're in prison for the rest of your life, you are living, but you're not free, and you know you never will be again. That would mess with my head a lot more than knowing I'm about to die.

I'd take death over life in prison any day. But maybe that's just me.

I think you're right but there is one aspect of this that we haven't touched on yet. We (all of us responding here) are normal folks. We don't engineer the deaths of thousands and thousands of people. We don't play God. We don't rule by fear, intimidation and torture. People (term used soooo very loosely) like him are not like us. They don't think and react like us. I am convinced that carrying out a death sentence is not so much to mete out justice against the offending party as it is a way, yes, medevial in it's way, of bringing about retribution and justice for the families of the victims.

I would be willing to bet that in his mind, Saddam went to the gallows as a hero. A martyr. The price to pay for the power he wielded. Sure, at the end, as he was trudging up those stairs or having the noose thrown over his head, I am sure that his heart was literally beating out of his chest. But it would not surprise me in the least that in the days leading up to his execution, he thought himself the victor over his captors.

And if they had held him with life in prison, it would be the same. Spitting in the eye of his captors.

He had his trial at the hand of the Iraqi's, he was convicted by these same folks and they executed him. Does it change anything? Wait and see but I doubt it. But the families of his victims can try to close that horrific chapter of their lives.

It's like when a killer is executed in this country. Capital punishment does not slow down violent crime. It does not 'punish' the killer. It provides him an escape in a way (unless you are a religious person and then you think that it just sort of sent him on his way to his own judgment). What it does is provide a sense of closure and justice to the families of the vicitms.

To me, execution or life in prison are both death sentences. Either-or.

Originally Posted by: hunter60We (all of us responding here) are normal folks. We don't engineer the deaths of thousands and thousands of people. We don't play God. We don't rule by fear, intimidation and torture.

I don't know....some of the mods here......

Seriously though, I agree with every single thing hunter said in the above post.

It's possible he should have been executed for his crimes against humanity - but he was found guilty 'only' of having 148 people killed in response to a failed attempt on his life (Dujail). Thet should have had everything he was accused of out in court. The cynic in me suspects that the west don't want to go near some of if because of our involvement - indirect or otherwise.

In my view, he should have been sentenced to death and then had that commuted to life in prison - shows the strength/mercy of the new regime. The families of Saddam's victims probably won't get much out of his death.

Originally Posted by: renIt's possible he should have been executed for his crimes against humanity - but he was found guilty 'only' of having 148 people killed in response to a failed attempt on his life (Dujail). Thet should have had everything he was accused of out in court. The cynic in me suspects that the west don't want to go near some of if because of our involvement - indirect or otherwise.

Or maybe it has something to do with avoiding Double Jeopardy?

Or do we prosecute serial killers for one or two murders at a time (out of the dozens they've often committed) because of direct or indirect Western involvement?

yea I'm with Akira. I dont think he was a good person, and perhaps he even deserved to die...but who are we decide? Killing Saddam served no purpose but to illustrate the authority held by America.

I obviously dont agree with any of his sentiments, and feel that his tyrany was very wrong, but I dont think it should have been up to the rest of the world as to wether he was killed or not.

Personally, I'm usually against the death penalty in all but the most extreme of cases...Prison should be seen as the correctional facility it was intended to be, and not as the punnishment as it is now perceived. Rehabilitation, not punnishment

I have no doubt Saddam deserved to be executed. I don't think his death or all the troops in the free world will ever stabilize the Middle East. Religious fanaticism is way to strong to overcome. I think the only thing his execution did was for those who lived in fear of Saddam even with him in prison now know he can't hurt them any longer. Those who sided with Saddam will always see the trial as corrupt and those who hated him will see it as just.

Seems to me the only way to solve the problems in the Middle East is to teach them there is Religion and there is Politics and the two are separate ideas and need to be kept that way. Good luck with that.....

Originally Posted by: Andrew Sayea I'm with Akira. I dont think he was a good person, and perhaps he even deserved to die...but who are we decide? Killing Saddam served no purpose but to illustrate the authority held by America.

I obviously dont agree with any of his sentiments, and feel that his tyrany was very wrong, but I dont think it should have been up to the rest of the world as to wether he was killed or not.[/quote]
It wasn't.

He was tried by Iraqis by laws designed by Iraqis in an Iraqi court and convicted by an Iraqi jury.

The only place I saw much American participation in his trial (outside of making it possible) was in his defense team.


By the way, I take it you're against international trials of War Criminals?


[QUOTE=Andrew Sa]Personally, I'm usually against the death penalty in all but the most extreme of cases...Prison should be seen as the correctional facility it was intended to be, and not as the punnishment as it is now perceived. Rehabilitation, not punnishment

Ah... historically speaking...

Prison as a means to rehabilitate criminals is a much more modern idea than prison as a means to punish criminals.

Then again, I'm stuck going by books and The History Channel here; perhaps you can tell me how good The Tower of London's weight room and library were?

hehe nice Rask. Yes, historically speaking prison dungeons were intented to punish and hold, but modern correctional services are exactly that.

As for the involvement of America in Saddams trial...the entire Iraqi legal and political scene has been set up in a post Us-invasion Iraq, with leaders and principles selected and appointed by Us sympathisers...and as such fitting US Ideals...if not for US involvement, not only would he be alive, he would also be in power (I'm not saying that he should be either, but you cannot deny Americas involvement in his execution)

Originally Posted by: Andrew Sa...As for the involvement of America in Saddams trial...the entire Iraqi legal and political scene has been set up in a post Us-invasion Iraq, with leaders and principles selected and appointed by Us sympathisers...and as such fitting US Ideals...

I see where you're coming from, but Iraqi's literally risked their lives to vote in their 1st national election to help form that government to some degree. Remember the proud purple fingers? Don't underestimate or mistake national pride and genuinely constructive motives for "U.S. Ideals". Those "sympathizers" are surely near the top of the insurgent assassination lists as well.

Well, this is obviously all a matter of perspective. In my opinion, putting Saddam in prison is just delaying the inevitable. He would be killed in there also. Not to mention, he can still have an influence on "his" people if he is still breathing. I believe in the principle "eye for an eye." Putting him in prison is still giving him a right those who he murdered and tortured did not get the luxury of. Life. He was a tyrannical leader, a terrible person, a war criminal, and a murderer. He was a danger to the United States and essentially everyone else. Out of date to hang him? Absolutely not in my opinion.

Doesn't matter now anyways.

Names John btw. From SW Pennsylvania. Hope to get to know you all!

Originally Posted by: grizzlymint He was a danger to the United States and essentially everyone else.

Names John btw. From SW Pennsylvania. Hope to get to know you all!

Even with him out of the picture (he's pretty much been out since his capture) the United States isn't in any better shape nor is the middle east (other than bringing joy to people dispised him.) I understand these things can take time, but I just don't see an end to any of this in the future without a major war between many other countries.

Originally Posted by: elklanderccEven with him out of the picture (he's pretty much been out since his capture) the United States isn't in any better shape nor is the middle east (other than bringing joy to people dispised him.) I understand these things can take time, but I just don't see an end to any of this in the future without a major war between many other countries.

Agreed. World peace is an idea for the naive. Too many different interests are at hand.

On a side note, I wouldn't say anybody was under the impression that the execution of Saddam was going to solve anything. However, its good not to have somebody of his type as a superpower.

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovOr maybe it has something to do with avoiding Double Jeopardy?

Or do we prosecute serial killers for one or two murders at a time (out of the dozens they've often committed) because of direct or indirect Western involvement?

It seems you're mocking me.... :confused:....

So the US didn't sell the materials to construct chemical weapons to him? just like the UK government didn't sell him missile building kits? The UK missile bit happened a few years back, but is known, the US end may be conjecture, I'm unsure - either way I'm thinking they'd prefer not to go there. Our complicity in some of this is uncomfortable, but that doesn't make it untrue. Dujail was the easiest charge to prove I hear, but surely all that means is that they were looking for the easiest way to see him put to death - justice in my mind is having him held to account for all his crimes, not just the ones that secure conviction.

For the record, I'm not US bashing, and I assume you've had a crack at me thinking I was - all I'm saying is, the families of those killed in Dujail may have seen justice done - what of the millions of others who lost loved ones? They're not going to get their day in court. Likewise, all the 'alledged' crimes of Saddam will have to remain 'alledged'.... although obviously we'll accept them as fact.

I maintain my previous position, killing him illustrates perfectly how the faces change, but the story remains the same. There is no place for the death penalty in 'civilised' society. Killing someone for killing someone? It seems the irony is wasted on some people.... When will Bush and Blair see their day in the Hague? A war is being fought by my country that some 80% of my countrymen have been against since before it began.

Originally Posted by: grizzlymint
Names John btw. From SW Pennsylvania. Hope to get to know you all!

Hey John, you're a yinzer too? Cool. Me too. Maybe I'll see yinz dahn-tahn someday. We can get a Primanti's sammich or sumtin...."

Welcome to the boards. Good folks here. :)

I'm conflicted. Not over Saddam's death, really. Such a man, who has taken so many lives, deserves a terrible fate. Were he not killing his own people, the word for his mass murdering would be "genocide." His Stalin-esque style of tyranny was twisted and sick.

At the same time, I can't bear to watch the news coverage. When I heard they had showed his death on national television I felt ill. Death is a frightening thing, to me. To exist one moment and the next be a lifeless doll truly scares me. I wonder if it's wrong to be so sickened by death, yet believe Saddam deserved the fate he met.

Am I being hypocritical, then? In that I wouldn't pull the hangman's switch, but I think he deserved death? I don't feel like I'm acting out of some bloodlust, nor do I think my presumption that man's justice should dictate life and death is somehow playing God. But at the same time, I couldn't do it myself. Perhaps it's hypocrisy; maybe it's just respect for death itself.

Originally Posted by: Jolly McJollysonAm I being hypocritical, then? In that I wouldn't pull the hangman's switch, but I think he deserved death? I don't feel like I'm acting out of some bloodlust, nor do I think my presumption that man's justice should dictate life and death is somehow playing God. But at the same time, I couldn't do it myself. Perhaps it's hypocrisy; maybe it's just respect for death itself.

Or maybe you just don't want to think of yourself as a killer.

I feel kinda the same as you. I wouldn't want to be the one to pull the switch. It would bother me for the rest of my life knowing I'd killed a man, even if he did deserve it.

In fact, I feel the same way in terms of animals. I don't oppose eating meat, but if I had to get my own meat, I'd probably be a vegetarian. Kind of ironic, seeing as I used to love hunting.