How do I master alternate picking? This thread is long, but PLEASE help me!

Hi everyone! I'm a new member at guitartricks, and I want you guys' help on guitar picking.
I don't think my left/right hand coordination is very good. cuz when my fret hand moves really fast, I pick slow. I do a lot of hammer ons and pull offs that way. but when I do really fast tremelo picking (brushing my picking as fast as possible creating 16ths or even 32nd notes), my fretting hand moves slow. i've tried many ways to improve that coordination by doing the chromatic 1-2-3-4 and learning paul gilbert songs (he's one of my greatest influences). but i just can't seem to get it right! and really... is there such thing as tremelo picking? i find tremelo picking kind of cheating. cuz i've been wondering if it's every possible to practice clean and crisp alternate picking bya metronome, and practice so much that eventually my alternate picking speed becomes as fast as the random brush of tremelo picking, or even faster! also, i can't sweep pick at all! and a lot of fast players do sweep picking. but paul gilbert doesn't sweep pick either! he plays arppegios by skipping strings and picking notes that make up the arppegios!
so basically, i want to master alternate picking! cuz when i do tremelo pickings, i find it really hard to switch or skip strings, and with alternate picking, i can! so my question is, can my alternate picking speed go as fast as tremelo picking speeds, or should I still practice tremelo picking. and if i should still practice tremelo picking, how do i practice left/right hand coordination with such picking?

Sadly, there is no secret to it... practice for a very long time with a metronome doing 1234 1324 134 whatever, speeding up as you manage quarter notes comfortably at each speed on the met... and make sure you stay alternate picking when moving between strings. Practice playing 3, 4 and 6 notes a beat... It'll take you a while to get up to speed, just make sure you don't go faster until your accurate at the speed you're doing... muscle memory.

Tremolo picking is just going as fast as possible, but only on one note really and shifting around - it doesn't matter how many times you play a note - think 'Miserlou'.

Gilbert does string skip arpeggios, and you can sweep them as well but it takes practice to lift the pick out of the way of the strings you're not playing - if you're going quick you can mute the others and you'll hear a slight click but that's it. To be honest, I'd worry about one thing at a time. Maybe set aside half an hour a day (or more if you can) to just technique - do alt picking one day and sweeping the next and so on. They all take alot of practice to get right at speed, and there is no point in rushing it if you wanrt it to be clean.... I wouldn't worry about sweeps with string skips until you're comfortable sweeping 6 string arpeggios of various types...

Tremolo picking is like the thing you practice before alternate picking. You should be able to alt pick as fast as you can tremolo pick. Trem is only your picking hand, alt requires co-ordination (obviously!)...

Good luck man.... it is a pain in the ass, but once you're there, you only have to keep it up... there are lessons on this site, and pretty much everywhere else to help you along...

[QUOTE=zreynoldsp]
Tremolo picking is like the thing you practice before alternate picking. You should be able to alt pick as fast as you can tremolo pick. Trem is only your picking hand, alt requires co-ordination (obviously!)...
QUOTE]
thanks for helping me out and thanks for pointing out the obvious fact between tremolo and alternate picking. now you said that trem is only your picking hand, but alt requires co-ordination. well... when paul gilbert frails up and down the scales throughout the whole fretboard, it looks like he's doing tremelo picking cuz he's moving so fast but at the same time every note he picks and every note he frets is so co-ordinated that to me it just seems like fast alternate picking! so what is he really doing? is he combining the two together? and here's my real question: IS IT POSSIBLE TO GAIN CO-ORDINATION WITH TREMOLO PICKING just as well as you can with alternate picking?

Hammer ons and Pull offs.

Don't let vidoe fool ya'

After all it killed the radio star :rolleyes:

Both alt and trem picking has it's uses. But try to look at it from a realistic (non-video) stand point. Your fingers (regardless of practice and time ) can only go so fast "together". Thus you have the need for HO's and PO's.

Sometimes it may look like someone is picking a note on a video when in reality they are not and they are using a HO or PO.

IMHO focus more on the HO's and PO's. Trem and Alt picking should take serious consideration but not you full attention.

2 cents

Originally Posted by: jimmy_kwtxHammer ons and Pull offs.

Don't let vidoe fool ya'

After all it killed the radio star :rolleyes:

Both alt and trem picking has it's uses. But try to look at it from a realistic (non-video) stand point. Your fingers (regardless of practice and time ) can only go so fast "together". Thus you have the need for HO's and PO's.

Sometimes it may look like someone is picking a note on a video when in reality they are not and they are using a HO or PO.

IMHO focus more on the HO's and PO's. Trem and Alt picking should take serious consideration but not you full attention.

2 cents

Agreed. If you want to improve your speed, hammer-ons and pull-offs are your first priority. Those machine-gun alt-picking passages will be much easier for you when you've trained your left hand by practicing HO-POs.

And don't worry about the fact that you can't sweep pick yet. I just got the hang of it recently, and it isn't all it's cracked up to be :).

A good solo to practice to get alternate picking down is Cowboys from Hell. Its a fun solo that will help your alternate picking licks link with everything else. Learning how to do it is one thing. Applying it in music and making it seem natural is another.

Well I don't know what you have to do. But as a severe dyslexic I have to do everything by ear when learning. Since a friend recently turned me on to Brent Mason I was in awe being more of a blues player. At 49 I have just been revitalized by Brent and Alberts playing styles. One thing and I don't deal with is numbers or too much with note names as it is too dificult for me. I found that the Po's and HO's are really where it is at for those really fast runs. I will take the MP3 and disect each bar note for note and practise the minute note segments until I can get the full lick run down. What this does for me is to understand the methode to the madness and to step into their playing mentality environement. I take it real slow to help with the machanics of the style and to train my brain for reaction. Mind blowing and frustrating to me as it is all new to me but we can do it if we practise and are patient and do not worry about speed at first. To me that comes with rythym and feel when your brain is ready for it. Good luck but get ready to bleed and get pissed off at yourself and feel like a no talent moron that is not worthy of owning a guitar lol.

there are three main factors in alt picking

picking hand speed
fretting hand speed
and co-ordination

you seem to have the picking hand speed, this can be developed by tremelo picking, as you have done.

but you dont seem to have mastered the other two.

fretting hand speed is best improved by practicing legato, (as has been suggested)

lastly co-ordination. only atttempt this when you are satisfied with the speed of each hand independantly. then practice this.

sadly there is no quick fix, you have to put the work in. if you are serious abou this i suggest you give yourself certain exercises spend about 5 minuets and each. then come back to it several times in the day.

anyway good luck and keep practicing.



EDIT: all above stuff done with a metronome. starting at a pace you are comfortable with and slowly movin it up.

metronome! boredom but quick.

i find nowadays if i'm alt picking or economy picking i can do it quite easily but i find that i my mind gets tired a lot quicker just from the general subconscious concentration, like i can't sing and alt pick whereas i can sing and down pick. i'd say i still have another 6 months of metronoming before i become comfortable with it (been doing it for 3 months now).

i know wat u meen suicidalmoose. i can play rythm and sing, but if i am singing i cant play even the simplest bit of lead. its somethin to do with keeping two rythms in my head at once.
:confused:

WOW EVERYONE, THANKYOU VERY MUCH! YOU'VE ALL BEEN A GREAT HELP! i'll get started with my alternate picking exercises with a metronome now, and even hammer on and pull off exercises. Just one more question though, ARE THERE ANY ECONOMY PICKING EXERCISES? or is economy picking pretty much picking as fast as you can?

once again, thanks a lot, and i really mean it!

econimy picking is diofferent to alternate. basically you pick in the direction you have to move to hit the string.

it makes no difference if you stay n the same string but if you start changing string you will see the difference.

for example, if you go from high e to b to g strings. you wil pick up the whole way were-as in alternate you pick down on the e up on the b and down on the g.

i would suggest you nail alternate picking before you attempt econimy. the reason being, alternate picking requires little thought after you are competant with it you just let your hand go up and down. whereas you have to think a lot with econimy, and if you are improvising it is easy to get confused. so you need alternate picking at the very least to fall back on.

alternate picking is also easier to keep in rythm, and this is often a problem when playing fast.


hope this helps

not to mention most people are slower / less accurate picking up then they are down, so alt picking forces you to pick up and down up and down which really improves your up picking, going straight to economy you're not working on your up picking as much and therefore you're not going to get as much bang for your buck with your time practiced.

i learnt red hot chili peppers 'she looks to me' today, go me!

Originally Posted by: geoffyARE THERE ANY ECONOMY PICKING EXERCISES?

Seriously dude, don't try to learn economy picking at the same time as alternate - it'll screw you right up! As the others have said, you have to think your licks out more for economy to make sure they 'fit' the pick movement. Economy is theoretically faster with the 'economy of movement' philosophy, but it's marginal in my opionion - alternate picking is a solid basic of guitar.

Also on hammer and pull exercises - one of the first ones I did was to trill between every combination of 2 fingers:

12
13
14
23
24
34

Do it as fast as you can - I started off doing a minute on each pairing each day (6 minute fretting hand workout!). Builds finger strength and technique. Careful on the timing - if a minute is too much for your hands, don't be a hero... nothing celever about tendonitis! Adjust it to fit - the 3+4 pairing is likely to hurt a fair bit, so maybe do it for less time to start with.

As RandallPaul has said, a certain amount of speed comes from just playing - it doesn't have to be graft. You'll get there quicker if you focus, but muscle memory is all it is.

It's a nice way to think on it - no-one is actually better at guitar than you, they've just practiced longer.... so you know what you gotta do, right? :D