jazz theory

is there anyone out there who can tell me how to form jazz chords or knows anything about jazz type theory? anything ya know would be appriciated

Good to see another player staring down the jazz path!

Now, if you're classically or even formally trained, you just need to get hold of a book and start learning those chords and strumming patterns. If you're not, like me, it's a bit more hit-and-miss. To find jazzy chords, I simply take a basic barre chord shape - major, minor, 7th or minor 7th - and just move the notes around a bit to see what sounds I can get. I also try them in different voicings and inversions. There are plenty of possibilities. That's the beauty of jazz - anything goes if you can make it sound cool!

As for strumming patterns, you just need to listen to a whole lot of jazz guitar. Make note of the most commonly used devices and practice them. Once you're familiar, you can begin using variations on them and/or create your own.

Don't know if my gibberish was of any help :o, but there you have it - jazz for the uneducated.

yea julian is a good person to ask abt jazz too..maybe he'll come arnd and try help u out..i wanna know more to im getting into jazz myself

Originally Posted by: jeffhxyea julian is a good person to ask abt jazz too..maybe he'll come arnd and try help u out..i wanna know more to im getting into jazz myself

Hiya, I'm working on a ski field for the next few months, so I only get to use the internet for an hour or so every few days. lifeis@song and jeffhx, if you have any specific questions about jazz feel free to pm me, or post in this thread and I'll be happy to reply when I can. :)

allright julian, are there any type of modified scale patterns or any certain chords i should know about. i think i got the strumming patterns down. should i just start to learn some wes montgomery??? i dont know... i love the way jazz sounds, and i like that you can do a lot of things with chromatics and it sounds cool, i just dont know what.

julian how do u construct jazz chords? and what scales do u normally use when constructing jazz solos?

Originally Posted by: jeffhxjulian how do u construct jazz chords? and what scales do u normally use when constructing jazz solos?

You should spend a bit of time at my lesson site: http://lessons.mikedodge.com

Check out the Interval and the Chord Construction Series. It'll answer your questions and give you a firm foundation of understanding on the subject too.

Hi guys,

To make chords sound jazzy, people add the 7th and/or 9th and 13ths to chords. There are many many ways to play 7th, 9th and 13th chords, far to many to go over here. Your best bet to learning how to play these chords is from a chord dictionary or similar.

When soloing over a jazz progression, often the chords will all be in the same key so you can just play one scale over them. Just playing one scale during a solo can sound quite boring after a while so its good to know what other scales you can play over certain chords. Here's a few examples:

Over minor chords:

the Dorian minor scale
the Melodic minor ascending scale (also called the jazz minor)
the Blues scale

Over major chords:

the lydian scale
the lydian augmented scale (the 3rd mode of the melodic minor)

Over dominant 7th chords:

the minor blues scale
the mixolydian scale
the super locrian scale (also called the augmented scale or 7th mode of the melodic minor


Jazz is all about tension and release. for example, in a 2 - 5 -1 progression such as Dminor7-G7-Cmajor7, the G chord is a tense chord that wants to resolve to the Cmajor. Often jazz players will play chromatics/wrong notes over the G7 chord, and resolve it on the Cmajor chord.

right now, I really really suggest checking out Lyle Ronglien's jazz lessons. http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Riff

each free lesson only stays for a few weeks, there are still a few jazz lessons you can check out. number seven has a really good solo and progression that you can learn.
I don't have much time on the internet, I'll try to post some more stuff soon.

Originally Posted by: Julian VickersHi guys,


Over dominant 7th chords:

the minor blues scale
the mixolydian scale
the super locrian scale (also called the augmented scale or 7th mode of the melodic minor

Actually, that Super Locrian scale os nicknamed, the Altered scale...not the Augmented scale.

All the other info's right on.

One things though, to truely be able to pull chord "out of your ass of the fly" so to speak, learning how the chord are build will be one of your best avenues.

Once you have a firm grip on that you might use a chord dictionary to verify what youve come up with. But that should only be for a short time until you've gained the confidence to KNOW how to make the chord and what to call it.

Originally Posted by: gennationActually, that Super Locrian scale os nicknamed, the Altered scale...not the Augmented scale.

All the other info's right on.

One things though, to truely be able to pull chord "out of your ass of the fly" so to speak, learning how the chord are build will be one of your best avenues.

Once you have a firm grip on that you might use a chord dictionary to verify what youve come up with. But that should only be for a short time until you've gained the confidence to KNOW how to make the chord and what to call it.

thanks, yeah the super locrian is the altered scale, not the augmented. I was typing without thinking again! :o

Like everyone's said, you probably should go pick up a book and spend a few times learning these chords.

I jazz, we typically see 7th chords, whether they are Maj7th, Min7th, Half-diminished 7th (dominant 7th), or fully diminished 7th.

The best way to learn these, in my opinion- is to utilize them in the context of one of the several jazz standards. Start simple, and pick up a Real/Fake book and work on something like All Blues by Miles Davis. Listen to the song, learn the melody, and learn the chords. Once you've got the song down, try learning it a completely different way- playing the melody in a different place, playing the chords in a different place (different inversion), I find this very useful and important and you will learn a lot from doing that.

The other chords you will see are 9 chords and 6 chords. So a Dmin9 or a EMaj6 for example. Same deal, utilize those in the context of one of the many standards. You'll find a whole assortment of chords in there.

Then you start to add things on top of chords, like #11's, and 13's, and #5's and a few more. So a chord might read Dmin7(b5), or A7(b9). But just like I said before- you'll find these in the standards left and right, so get a book to see where they are- learn the songs, and learn them in as many different ways as you can.

My email is [email]aweibe@gborocollege.edu[/email] , feel free to email me if you have any questions.

is the dorian minor scale the same thing as a phrygirian mode? im kinda tripped up about that

Originally Posted by: lifeis@songis the dorian minor scale the same thing as a phrygirian mode? im kinda tripped up about that

Nope, those are two different scales, they are both minor but different.

They are term modes of the Major scale.

This document might help you...

http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/MusicTheory/Diatonic/DiatonicAll.htm

Originally Posted by: gennationNope, those are two different scales, they are both minor but different.

They are term modes of the Major scale.

This document might help you...

http://lessons.mikedodge.com/lessons/MusicTheory/Diatonic/DiatonicAll.htm

so do they have the same patterns and they are different scales

Originally Posted by: lifeis@songso do they have the same patterns and they are different scales

They DO NOT have the same pattern. But, each of them is found within eachother.

They both have a Minor sound to them, or a Minor application. But, the Intervals are different between those two scales. The are not the same scale.

Dorian - R 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 R
Phrygian - R b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 R

Here you can see the similarities in Intervals and the differences.

They both have a R b3 4 5 b7 R in common. And, this is actually a Minor Pentatonic scale.

Then these Intervals make them different 2 v/s b2, 6 v/s b6. So, they are definitely not the same, but there are similarities.

Did you read that document I posted?

ok i think i looked up bad information somwhere else . is dorian minor the same thing as just plain dorian?

Originally Posted by: lifeis@songok i think i looked up bad information somwhere else . is dorian minor the same thing as just plain dorian?

Yes that could be considered the same thing. But it's generally just called "Dorian" since dorian is a minor based scales. So you can just call it Dorian.

Depending on the context of the sentence though I could see Dorian and minor being next to each other. But Dorian is just Dorian, and Dorian is a minor sounding scale.

Hope that makes sense.

All chords are built from scales. I think the best way to understand harmony is to use a major scale. Do, Re,Mi,Fa,sol,La,Ti,Do or put it in numbers
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 steps of the scale. I prefer numbers because voicing on the guitar are described by numbers i.e. 1-3-5-7 etc.

One must have to memorize the 12 Major scales and the key signatures associted with each one. Here's a little trick I used to teach the key signatures to my students.

If you can remember the word BEAD and add GCF to it to make the following:
BEADGCF then underneath the BEADGCF write on paper its mirror image for example FCGDAEB make it look like a fraction:

BEADGCF (this is the order of FLATS)
---------
FCGDAEB (this is the order of SHARPS)



Next draw a large circle on paper (Like a clock) this is called the circle of fifths

at 12:00 mark it with C and under the C write 0 (zero)
at 1:00 mark it with G and under the G write 1
at 2:00 mark it with D and under the D write 2
at 3:00 mark it with A and under the A write 3
at 4:00 mark it with E and under the E write 4
at 5:00 mark it with B and under the B write 5
at 6:00 mark it with F#/Gb and under write 6
at 7:00 mark it with Db and under write 5
at 8:00 mark it with Ab and under write 4
at 9:00 mark it with Eb and under write 3
at 10:00 mark it with Bb and under write 2
at 11:00 mark it with F and under write 1

This is a graphic representation of the order of sharps and flats. Divide the circle in half down the middle and on the right side is all the SHARP KEYS and on the left is all the FLAT KEYS.


Now let's put the two together..
STarting at 12:00 we can see the letter C and under it says 0 that means that the key of C has no sharps or Flats
Let's try 3:00 it is on the sharp side of the circle and has the letter A and near it a number 3. Go back to the FCGDAEB (this is the order of SHARPS) and count 3 letters from the left in this case it would be FCG so now the key of A major has 3 sharps and those sharps are F,C G sharp.
ONE MORE EXAMPLE USING FLATS

Starting at 8:00 we have Ab (On the flat side of the circle) and near it has a 4 that means that the key of Ab has 4 flats and now we can count on our fraction BEADGCF (this is the order of FLATS) 4 letters B,E,A,D so the key of Ab has 4 flats and they are Bb,Eb,Ab,Db

At this point you should be able to construct all 12 major scales in numbers and letters like this:

Key of G major:
G A B C D E F# G
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

This should be done on paper and the next stewp is to memorize the 12 major scales and know what notes are sharped and/or flatted in each key.

If this proves helpfull I'll continue on with chord construction from this point. Please contact me ifyou have any questions about this article.

no, this was definetly helpful, more thatn helpful... is there a circle of fifths for each different type of scale?like a minor on or a dorian etc. please write whatever you can.... im a sponge

fantastic stuff...more pleaaasee