Ampeg

Alright LATS, I'm ready to hear the real deal about your ampeg amps. I've been looking around on ebay, and I've found the 22, the 40, and the 60 for relatively cheap prices...

So first of all, what kind of styles are they best for? I've been looking at the Carvin Legacy lately, but I'm afraid to get that because of the extreme volume (although I could purchase an attenuator, but that's pushing my budget).

You told me the clean sounds were great awhile back - how about the distortion? Although I'm mainly a jazzer, I've been getting into progressive stuff lately, especially jam oriented rock. I'm not looking for metal here, just a sweet, soaring lead sound. I'm also looking for a good blues tone.

So what's the deal with the ampeg? Spill!

(BTW this isn't just open to LATS, but the entire GT community as well - it's just that Lordathestrings seems to be the advocate for ampegs 'round here).

The following is an excerpted version taken from >this< thread where somebody asked me about guitars, pickups, distortion, and amps.....

Originally Posted by: Lordathestringshmm...

You do realise this is kinda like asking for "the meaning of life, the universe, and everything", don't you?

There are reasons why I have several guitars. They are all very versatile, in that they are all able to sound good in any genre I care to attempt. And they all sound a bit different from each other....

... A big part of tone is the amp. I like old V-series Ampegs for their ability to make a guitar sound so loud that you can feel it, without sounding like an amp. That takes a while to understand, 'cause it doesn't make sense until you play one. Most big-name amps, especially Fender and Marshall, have their signature sound. Ampegs sound like the guitar and the player.

I've never experienced another brand of amp that brought out subtle differences in guitar tone the way my mid-70's Ampegs do. There's nowhere to hide. I wanna die of embarrassment when I get sloppy, because what comes out of the speakers sounds so bad. But when I've got my chops in order, there's nothing quite like the intimacy of expression this rig delivers.

Which brings us back to the guitar. When your amp allows subtle differences to come through, then your tone-quest becomes a matter of finding the combination of hardware and technique that delivers what you're looking for.

What you describe, sounds like something a blues player would recognise. Riding that clean/dirty edge is a way of life. You need an amp that has a very ballsy clean tone. And a distorted tone that doesn't get muddy when you go from single notes to chords. Both of my Ampegs do this, but there are differences in the way they do it.

My 1976 VT-22 is a 120 Watt, 2x12" open-back combo. There's no gain adjustment, just a volume control. The tone circuits are true boost/cut type, with a wide range of adjustment. The output tubes are a quad of JJ KT88's, biased for maximum undistorted output. The sound stays fairly clean up until your clothing is flapping in the wind off the speakers. Then there's a smooth transition into a kind of distortion that I call The Voice of God. Its not the creamy 'brown' sound of earlier tube amps, and its not the sharp-edged raspy sound I associate with metal. It sounds like what it actually is - a very powerful force that has been pushed hard, and is pushing back - harder! Earplugs and body armour are recommended.

My 1977 VT-40 is unique. It was badly flood-damaged, so as part of my salvage operation, I had to build a new cab for it and I tossed the original speakers. Its now a 60 Watt 1x15" closed-back combo. There are switches to adjust the gain of each channel. The tone controls are the same as my VT-22. There's a Master Volume control. This amp sounds a bit thicker. The 15" speaker in a closed cab gives it some serious punch, and the amp gets noticeably dirty quicker than the VT-22. The output tubes are the original Magnavox (re-labeled Sylvania) 7027A's.

I should point out here that cutting the power delivered to a speaker in half produces a barely noticeable drop in apparent volume. So the difference between 60 Watts and 120 Watts isn't a big deal. The speaker in my 1x15" combo is very efficient, so the smaller amp is actually at least as loud as the 'big' one. The difference mostly comes down to things like response to picking dynamics....

If you want that tonal quality in a low-powered package, the closest thing I've found (this is ironic) is a late-70's Maganavox Ampeg G-18. Its a no-frills 10 Watt transistor 1x8" combo. Two input jacks, one channel, Volume, Bass, and Treble. A very broad distortion threshold makes it less suitable for dancing along the edge, but then again if you just crank it 'n wail, it sounds great! I used to have two of them, but the guy I was jamming with flat-out insisted that I should sell him one. So now I own one, and I have visitation rights to another.

HELLO ;)

Well I don't think I'm looking for something that small, but I wanted to stray away from the Legacy because it's 100 watts and apparently very loud. I don't gig much (only in high school) but I want an amp that I will eventually gig with, and it has to have the power for that.

So right now it's between a Fender Super Reverb, a Fender Vibroverb, and an Ampeg VT-40.

From what I've heard, I won't be disappointed with any of them. I've liked both of the fenders in the store, but as Ampegs aren't produced, I've had to go to ebay. I did find this one. It's in my price range, but bidding ends in 13 hours!

$850??? Don't do it!!!! :eek:

That's insane money! No wonder there are 0 bids! A clean VT-40 is worth $400 - $500 tops. You should be able to get a V-2 (the head version) for $200 - $300.

{Edit: Now that I've had a little more time to look at it, I think its a 1976 Model, based on the Distortion control for Channel II. I have that on my 1976 VT-22, and it sounds horrible! I keep it turned down all the way, and its OK like that. The Distortion circuit is not reason enough to not buy an amp that is otherwise excellent, but the models that don't have that feature are preferable. The ones that have Sensitivity switches to control the channel gain give the best flexibility. My 1977 VT-40 also has a Master Volume control, which allows me to get some good crunch without totally destroying the room. I admit it sounds best when the amp is cranked up, but sometimes you gotta roll it back a bit so that no one gets hurt! I notice this listing is by a Guitar Centre, which explains the outrageous price. Walk away.}

:o That was close. Thanks for the tip.

Ampegs are for players, not collectors! I hope they never command the insane prices you see on old Marshalls. Vintage gear should be owned by people who actually make music. Investors and speculators should stay the hell out of it. :mad:

After a quick tour of eBay:

If you want to re-arrange your neighbor's furniture, get this >early V-4< and a decent 4x12" cab.

A nice >V-2< listed for way too much money.


A nice >early VT-40< that someone spent a lot of money fixing up. I don't know if its worth more than $600. His BIN price of $999 is unrealistic. But there are fools with more money than good sense who distort the market. I really hope that doesn't happen with Ampegs.


Here ya go! This >early VT-22< can kill at 20 paces! With his BIN price of $499, its a good deal.

I think I'll go for the VT-22, because at that price it will leave me with enough money for a good attenuator so I can still crank it every once in awhile without waking up the neighbors (but I never liked them anyway, so...). Thanks LATS! You're a great help!

Originally Posted by: LordathestringsHere ya go! This >early VT-22< can kill at 20 paces! With his BIN price of $499, its a good deal.

Daddy wants!!!!!!!!!, but daddy can't part with the cash right now :( Besides, daddy wouldn't try to steal a deal from someone else who has first dibs, and is in more need than I. Good luck!

Thanks for being considerate - I need to place the order, but my parents are out, and they won't give me their ebay account password! I suppose I have to wait the unbearable 30 minutes until they get home...

The Deal is done!

Huzzah!

Good on yer! :D

OK, if you read the listing carefully, you already know that this beast is heavy! 88 pounds may be an understatement. My '76 clocks in at 96 lbs. on the scales. You will want to make some kind of wheeled dolly cart for it. Don't take that silly strap-handle on top seriously - its a roadie joke; a trap for unwary machismo types who will rapidly discover the need for a good chiropractor. I know some very capable people. None of them get far carrying my amp with one hand. A VT-22 is a two-man lift. And nobody carries it solo.

Its key to remember that the tone controls are true boost/cut types. Start out with all of them set at 12:00 (no effect), and search from there with the settings. With a little experimentation, you can find just about any sound you want. It won't do that fizzy, high-gain stuff that nobody played back when this monster was first brought to life, but that's what pedals are for. You're about to discover what you sound like. That can be a real eye-opener.

I tell you true - this is an amp that will improve your playing. :cool:

Originally Posted by: PRSplayaDaddy wants!!!!!!!!!

Very sporting of you to step back on this one! Good Karma! :cool:

I routinely search eBay for these big ol' tone-monsters. I'll tap your shoulder if something comes up. You might contact that guy with the expensive V-2. This is his third or fourth listing, so by now he may be ready to listen to a reasonable offer. Like $250 or $300. Just be sure to get a quote for shipping [u]before[/u] you talk price, so you don't get bushwacked. Someone who asks for $750 for a clean V-2 may not be a reasonable person.

@ACE... Congratulations! Be sure to give us a detailed review of it, once you've had some quality time with it.


@Lats... Well, it will be a pretty long time before I'm able to get myself one of these beasts. I just got myself into an acoustic gig, so I'm saving up for a decent 6-string acoustic electric. The one I currently have is just good enough for a backup, but gets the job done at the moment (well, actually it's not because it has a busted nut). One day I will add one of these monsters to my arsenal, though.

There is a noticeable difference in the SOUND of the Ampeg VT-22/V4, and the VT-40/V-2 amps.

Most people assume that the difference is in four versus two output tubes, and heavier transformers for the big version.

Also, people refer to the V-4 often as a 120W amp, and the V-2 as 60 Watts. Figures, no?

The trick is in the voltages. For some reason, the V-2/VT-40 have 50 extra volts coming off the rectifier. 545 Volts for the V-4, and 595 for the V-2.
The V-4 is actually a true 100W amp (100W RMS with all tolerances off to the worst case scenario) meaning that it will pump out MINIMUM of 100W. (Not like the sissy Fender watts, where 100 theoretical is more like 80 in reality!)

The V-2 does the same at 60W RMS. When you relieve a V-4 of two output tubes, with correct impedance it delivers 50W. The V-2, thanks to those extra 50volts, delivers 20% more.

WHY Ampeg did this remains a mystery to me. Fact is, it makes the amp sound different. To my ears, the V-2 distorts much earlier than the V-4 (even a V-4 with only 2 output tubes). The entire amp (pre-amp, tone circuit, everything) runs on higher voltage. A much more sensitive amp.

THIS IS ALSO why you can run modern tubes in V4/VT22's, but in the VT40/V2 they may fry.

One last word: These Ampegs were made for serious 70's musicians. I've played hundreds and hundreds of gigs on them, and they sounded great, WHEN PUSHED. I still play my V-2 rig, with a power attentuator nowadays to please the new generation of volume-shy club owners and listeners. You HAVE to bring it to distortion naturally (no pedals, no master volumes).

Those were the great unwashed smoking rocking (and everything else!) days....

Oh and don't forget that other great great Ampeg gem: the B-25B, originally a bass amp like the SVT, but ... er ... so was the Fender Bassman...

A good friend of mine FOUND a 1969 B-25B in the bulk trash. I repaired it, recapped it, and did a few modest mods, to be more like the V-3 (I kid you not: Dan Armstrong's mods!).

Now it sounds better for guitar than my V-2 OR my V-4! It runs on less voltage, so you can be more liberal in choosing tubes too (which is good: I paid $250 for my last set of NOS 7075's)

Now that's resurrecting an old thread in style! :D

I've stuffed a quad of JJ KT88s into my VT-22, and get close to 140 Watts out of it. The power transformers in these old beasts were specified when the AC mains voltage was 110 Vrms. These days, its closer to 125 Vrms. My VT-40 (rebuilt as a 1x15") puts 605 V on the plates. NOS Sylvania 7027A tubes in this one.

I now have several V-2s, and a Jupiter B42X as well.


Ampeg rules, and Fender drools!