Thanks,
Emmett
Classical/Flamenco tremolo
I have used many books and watched several videos on the technique of tremolo, but never have I been given an idea of how long it might take to master the technique. Starting from the beginning, at a snail's pace, what would be the estimated time to recognize the correct sound? Would it be weeks, months, or years if I practiced 2 hours each day? How much would age matter?
Thanks,
Emmett
Thanks,
Emmett
# 1
well for it to sound good, you might want to grow out your fingernails a bit. At least until you have about like 5mm of white nail sticking out. Master tremolo is like mastering alternate picking, you can't really be good at all phrases until your exposed to them. There really is no line drawn that separates the master's from the students.
Though, I have been playing flamenco for about 3 years and I wouldnt say I'v mastered it, but I can play alot of music from the technique I have aquired.
Though, I have been playing flamenco for about 3 years and I wouldnt say I'v mastered it, but I can play alot of music from the technique I have aquired.
# 2
I would like to know more in detail what the approach would be in executing tremolo. Do you do only 4-finger tremolo when training? Did you leave the thumb inactive while executing i a m i or did you always use the thumb before the first i ?.
I'm trying to find out how long it takes to get a good steady flow of tremolo going with confidence on at least four strings.
I have a minor case of focal dystonia that causes me some problem with my index finger, and I'm trying to figure out if I will ever do tremolo correctly. As I said before, no teacher has ever mentioned how long it takes the average student to execute 3- or 4-finger tremolo smoothly. I don't think it took you 3 years just for the tremolo part itself.
Worick
I'm trying to find out how long it takes to get a good steady flow of tremolo going with confidence on at least four strings.
I have a minor case of focal dystonia that causes me some problem with my index finger, and I'm trying to figure out if I will ever do tremolo correctly. As I said before, no teacher has ever mentioned how long it takes the average student to execute 3- or 4-finger tremolo smoothly. I don't think it took you 3 years just for the tremolo part itself.
Worick
# 3
I use my three fingers (index, middle, and ring). The secret of tremolo is the way you rotate your fingers.
for now: Index = 1, Middle = 2, Ring = 3.
I start off with the index finger and move like this:
1321321321321321321321321
So basically I gallop with me three fingers, but since I start with my index and then jump to the ring, the tremolo doenst sound like a gallop.
At first, I dont want to use my thumb, but just make sure my tremolo fingers are tight and fit. This constant rotation will cause fatigue on your fingers and forearm, so expect to practice this daily until you get a slight pain ---then stop, dont practice on constant pain. Rest for 15 minuets and start again.
You want to practice this on the high E string and once you got it good at speed then start adding the bass with the thumb.
The only part I dont understand you is the 3, 4 string deal. What do you mean? Can you give me an example on a tab? Are you sure your not talking about arpeggio?
oh and BTW, it didnt take me 3 years to learn it. It took me much shorter, but once you reach a platuea, you can go any faster, better, or more accurate. But I was just saying withing my 3 years of playing, I can temolo quite accurate.
No person can really say how long it will take them to learn a technique, its a on goin practice and you can really put a timer on it. Its like asking how someone learned how to bend. A person playing for 3 weeks can bend just as far as BB KING, but I doubt they are on par with eachother...
for now: Index = 1, Middle = 2, Ring = 3.
I start off with the index finger and move like this:
1321321321321321321321321
So basically I gallop with me three fingers, but since I start with my index and then jump to the ring, the tremolo doenst sound like a gallop.
At first, I dont want to use my thumb, but just make sure my tremolo fingers are tight and fit. This constant rotation will cause fatigue on your fingers and forearm, so expect to practice this daily until you get a slight pain ---then stop, dont practice on constant pain. Rest for 15 minuets and start again.
You want to practice this on the high E string and once you got it good at speed then start adding the bass with the thumb.
The only part I dont understand you is the 3, 4 string deal. What do you mean? Can you give me an example on a tab? Are you sure your not talking about arpeggio?
oh and BTW, it didnt take me 3 years to learn it. It took me much shorter, but once you reach a platuea, you can go any faster, better, or more accurate. But I was just saying withing my 3 years of playing, I can temolo quite accurate.
No person can really say how long it will take them to learn a technique, its a on goin practice and you can really put a timer on it. Its like asking how someone learned how to bend. A person playing for 3 weeks can bend just as far as BB KING, but I doubt they are on par with eachother...
# 4
Thanks a lot for your valuable input. Now I'm beginning to understand. You didn't understand my mentioning the 3- and 4-finger techniques. What I meant was this: Typically, classical tremolo is 3 fingers (p a m i); Flamenco tremolo is typically 4- fingers (p i a m i). You were using numbers for the fingers but I aways used p (pulgar), i (indice); m (medio); a (anular).
As for the length of time it takes, I can understand that each person is different, but I was hoping at some point that some teacher who has been teaching for years might give an average of how long it took for the students to become proficient in tremolo.
Many years ago I could do the 3-finger tremolo, but I had an unfortunate situation that occurred when I changed my right-hand position at which time I lost control of my index finger. It has improved remarkably through the years, but I still feel some lack of precision. The 3-finger tremolo is almost back to normal, but the 4-finger tremolo that I love is still far from accurate. It just seems so unnatural to shift from i to a, and then m i, but when done properly, it is very special.
I live in a part of Virginia where there are no teachers, and I doubt if there are any guitarists outside of country music.
Thanks again for your help.
Worick
As for the length of time it takes, I can understand that each person is different, but I was hoping at some point that some teacher who has been teaching for years might give an average of how long it took for the students to become proficient in tremolo.
Many years ago I could do the 3-finger tremolo, but I had an unfortunate situation that occurred when I changed my right-hand position at which time I lost control of my index finger. It has improved remarkably through the years, but I still feel some lack of precision. The 3-finger tremolo is almost back to normal, but the 4-finger tremolo that I love is still far from accurate. It just seems so unnatural to shift from i to a, and then m i, but when done properly, it is very special.
I live in a part of Virginia where there are no teachers, and I doubt if there are any guitarists outside of country music.
Thanks again for your help.
Worick
# 5
Oh ok, I know what you mean.
Yea in flamenco, there are 4 note intervals between the bass strings while in classical there are only three. In regular classical tremelo, you are basically galloping your three finger starting.
But in flamenco, you still dont use 4 fingers(as far as I know, well at least I dont)but you start on your index, then ring, then middle, then BACK to index, and then you strike with the thumb.
Ok, let me post a little exercise that helped me learn.
E---0(E)-0-0-0---0-0-0-0---0-0-0-0----ect.-----
B--------------------------------------------
G--------------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------------
A-2(B)---------3(C)---------2----------3-----------
e---------------------------------------------
alrite, even though it seems really bland, let me tell you why exacly I posted this.
-Okay, you hit the B with the thumb, and then imediately up-stroke with the index on the first of 4 E's.
-Then (this will feel weird) strike with the ring after pulling back the index finger. (the reason I say after pulling back the index is because sometimes the index will still rest on the string and will not allow the ring to produce a sound)
-After you hit the ring, just do a regular gallop and end with the index finger as you started with.
-When you end with the index, Imediatly strike the C with the thumb and continue the pattern.
Now the reason I added the B anc C is so you dont get mesmerized into the constant iamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiami...blah! that will get you mixed up and will seem pointless
Therefore, the p iami p iami p iami ... will let you consantrate on the sets of 4 more because the thumb separates the sets, than just iamiamiami
Now the reason I added B AND C instead of just B OR C is because it is nice to learn now to chance bass string as you tremolo. If you just practice: BEEEE BEEEE BEEEE or CEEEE CEEEE CEEEE, you may get used to just hitting the thumb without thinking (which is what your aiming for, but not with ONE note, you want to do this without thinking with MULTIPLE notes) and then when your practicing with multiple notes, you will get your hand tangled up.
Ok, here are some tips that helped me:
-Right after you hit your thumb, get used to using your index finger naturally
p i p i p i p i p i
---0--0--0--0--0----
---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
-2--2--2--2--2------
---------------------
that will help you naturally hit the index finger after the thumb strike.
-Now the hardest part, getting used to the ring finger after the index.
The way I did this was I just corned this movement and focused exculusivly on it.
I constatnly did: ia ia ia ia ia ia ia ia ... on the E string until i got used to the pattern of having my ringfinger follow the index.
-After I had that part down, I added the middle finger and tried to do the tremolo part only without bass to see if it was tight and clean: iami iami imai...
- Later I found out that in this typle of tremolo, the index finger is a signal. It signals the thumb. So whenever your using your thumb on tremolo, always follow it with an index and stop with an index.
...and thats it. Man im tired of typing :p
Yea in flamenco, there are 4 note intervals between the bass strings while in classical there are only three. In regular classical tremelo, you are basically galloping your three finger starting.
But in flamenco, you still dont use 4 fingers(as far as I know, well at least I dont)but you start on your index, then ring, then middle, then BACK to index, and then you strike with the thumb.
Ok, let me post a little exercise that helped me learn.
E---0(E)-0-0-0---0-0-0-0---0-0-0-0----ect.-----
B--------------------------------------------
G--------------------------------------------
D---------------------------------------------
A-2(B)---------3(C)---------2----------3-----------
e---------------------------------------------
alrite, even though it seems really bland, let me tell you why exacly I posted this.
-Okay, you hit the B with the thumb, and then imediately up-stroke with the index on the first of 4 E's.
-Then (this will feel weird) strike with the ring after pulling back the index finger. (the reason I say after pulling back the index is because sometimes the index will still rest on the string and will not allow the ring to produce a sound)
-After you hit the ring, just do a regular gallop and end with the index finger as you started with.
-When you end with the index, Imediatly strike the C with the thumb and continue the pattern.
Now the reason I added the B anc C is so you dont get mesmerized into the constant iamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiamiami...blah! that will get you mixed up and will seem pointless
Therefore, the p iami p iami p iami ... will let you consantrate on the sets of 4 more because the thumb separates the sets, than just iamiamiami
Now the reason I added B AND C instead of just B OR C is because it is nice to learn now to chance bass string as you tremolo. If you just practice: BEEEE BEEEE BEEEE or CEEEE CEEEE CEEEE, you may get used to just hitting the thumb without thinking (which is what your aiming for, but not with ONE note, you want to do this without thinking with MULTIPLE notes) and then when your practicing with multiple notes, you will get your hand tangled up.
Ok, here are some tips that helped me:
-Right after you hit your thumb, get used to using your index finger naturally
p i p i p i p i p i
---0--0--0--0--0----
---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
-2--2--2--2--2------
---------------------
that will help you naturally hit the index finger after the thumb strike.
-Now the hardest part, getting used to the ring finger after the index.
The way I did this was I just corned this movement and focused exculusivly on it.
I constatnly did: ia ia ia ia ia ia ia ia ... on the E string until i got used to the pattern of having my ringfinger follow the index.
-After I had that part down, I added the middle finger and tried to do the tremolo part only without bass to see if it was tight and clean: iami iami imai...
- Later I found out that in this typle of tremolo, the index finger is a signal. It signals the thumb. So whenever your using your thumb on tremolo, always follow it with an index and stop with an index.
...and thats it. Man im tired of typing :p
# 6
You did a wonderful job of detailed explanation. Everything is understood completely.
I'll make a copy of your comments to have with me when I practice.
Flamenco, as far as I know, has been labeled as 4-finger tremolo only because of the 4 times you hit the treble--not by actually using four different fingers! The same with classical, which is 3-finger tremolo.
One other thing I was thinking: If the i a m i sequence is practiced without the thumb, I think it would be a good idea to pause by one count after the last i, which will represent one beat for the thumb. I tried that by starting with the count of 5 and then 1 for i, 2 for a, 3 for m and 4 for i and 5 for the missing thumb. It gets to be natural without having to count but it's more real. As you say, that flow of the fingers is what needs to be perfected.
Muchas gracias,
Worick
I'll make a copy of your comments to have with me when I practice.
Flamenco, as far as I know, has been labeled as 4-finger tremolo only because of the 4 times you hit the treble--not by actually using four different fingers! The same with classical, which is 3-finger tremolo.
One other thing I was thinking: If the i a m i sequence is practiced without the thumb, I think it would be a good idea to pause by one count after the last i, which will represent one beat for the thumb. I tried that by starting with the count of 5 and then 1 for i, 2 for a, 3 for m and 4 for i and 5 for the missing thumb. It gets to be natural without having to count but it's more real. As you say, that flow of the fingers is what needs to be perfected.
Muchas gracias,
Worick
# 7
Originally Posted by: eworick
Flamenco, as far as I know, has been labeled as 4-finger tremolo only because of the 4 times you hit the treble--not by actually using four different fingers! The same with classical, which is 3-finger tremolo.
whoops!! :( my bad...
de nada amigo
# 8