modes

so let me see if i understand this right......
a G dorian is the same scale as a F ionian just starting on different notes?

Correctomundo.

oh wow... a bomb just went off inside my head i finally understand.

Originally Posted by: jshwaggleso let me see if i understand this right......
a G dorian is the same scale as a F ionian just starting on different notes?

Technically it is not the same scale, they are two different scales.
The F Ionian(F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F) is a major scale, and is supposed to be played over an F major Chord.

The G Dorian Mode(G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F-G) is a minor scale with a major sixth instead of a minor sixth; and it is supposed to be played over a G minor chord.

Originally Posted by: equatorTechnically it is not the same scale, they are two different scales.
The F Ionian(F-G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F) is a major scale, and is supposed to be played over an F major Chord.

The G Dorian Mode(G-A-Bb-C-D-E-F-G) is a minor scale with a major sixth instead of a minor sixth; and it is supposed to be played over a G minor chord.

This, by the way, is part of the reasoning behind my disagreeing with you on the usefulness of relative scales over a blues backing.

Originally Posted by: AkiraYeah, but the basic principle of what he said is correct.

In Music Theory, a Modus is a certain arrangement of diatonic tones of an octave. To understand the fundamentals of how they are built; you have to know the order of the fixed intervals.
That is why I said Technically they are two different scales, each one has its own structure in terms of intervals and tension notes.

And He said, a G dorian is the [U]same[/U] scale as the F Ionian, starting on [U]different notes[/U], and that is not true; the dorian mode is found on the second degree of the major scale in specific; and not starting on "different notes".

Is this just like how the G major is the same as the E minor? I am trying to understand this theory stuff and my heads is exploding

Originally Posted by: Swe_ShredderIs this just like how the G major is the same as the E minor? I am trying to understand this theory stuff and my heads is exploding

No, that's totally different. That actually relates to the Aeon flux capacitor of sound waves.

HA, just kidding. Yeah, it's the same thing as Gmaj and Em having the same notes.

Originally Posted by: Swe_ShredderIs this just like how the G major is the same as the E minor? I am trying to understand this theory stuff and my heads is exploding

It is not hard at all.
You have to understand first of all, that the G major scale and the E minor are not the same scale.
The G major scale has a "major tonality" and it is supposed to be played over a G major chord.


The E minor scale has its origen on the E major scale, to which you flat the 3rd, 6th, 7th.
E major scale=[E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#]
E minor scale=[E-F#-G-A-B-C-D]
As you can see, when you flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the Major scale, it becomes a minor scale, and it is Relative to the G major scale.
Not just because they have the same notes does it mean that they are the same scale.
The E minor scale has a "minor tonality" and it is supposed to be played over an E minor chord.

Now take a C major scale (C-D-E-F-G-A-B) and raise the 4th note a semitone, and you get a C Lydian Mode (C-D-E-F#-G-A-B) and now this mode has the same notes as the G major scale, but it is supposed to be played over a C major chord, not a G major chord.
The best thing to do, is to compare the Lydian mode against the major scale(Ionian).

C major=.....[C-D-E-F-G-A-B]
C Lydian=....[C-D-E-F#-A-B]
The raised 4th note is the caracteristic flavor of the Lydian Mode. In the previous example that note is "F#"

Now I am not saying that you cannot play a minor scale over a major chord;
because you can if you know what you are doing.
You can use Syncopation to accent the rigth notes, and then you have to resolve the dissonant notes to any of the consonant notes.

Originally Posted by: equatorIt is not hard at all.

Sometimes I just want to yell it.

Originally Posted by: equatorIt is not hard at all.
You have to understand first of all, that the G major scale and the E minor are not the same scale.
The G major scale has a "major tonality" and it is supposed to be played over a G major chord.


The E minor scale has its origen on the E major scale, to which you flat the 3rd, 6th, 7th.
E major scale=[E-F#-G#-A-B-C#-D#]
E minor scale=[E-F#-G-A-B-C-D]
As you can see, when you flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the Major scale, it becomes a minor scale, and it is Relative to the G major scale.
Not just because they have the same notes does it mean that they are the same scale.
The E minor scale has a "minor tonality" and it is supposed to be played over an E minor chord.

Now take a C major scale (C-D-E-F-G-A-B) and raise the 4th note a semitone, and you get a C Lydian Mode (C-D-E-F#-G-A-B) and now this mode has the same notes as the G major scale, but it is supposed to be played over a C major chord, not a G major chord.
The best thing to do, is to compare the Lydian mode against the major scale(Ionian).

C major=.....[C-D-E-F-G-A-B]
C Lydian=....[C-D-E-F#-A-B]
The raised 4th note is the caracteristic flavor of the Lydian Mode. In the previous example that note is "F#"

Now I am not saying that you cannot play a minor scale over a major chord;
because you can if you know what you are doing.
You can use Syncopation to accent the rigth notes, and then you have to resolve the dissonant notes to any of the consonant notes.

So does that mean that when im soloing over a song thats in Em I really shouldnt be using Gmaj scales like I am now?