[Edited by BadHorsie on 05-25-2001 at 12:06 PM]
Ain't nothin' but a Gear thang, baby!
Blues vs. Shred?!?!
You know, I've been at this forum for quite a while now. And all this time I've noticed that there's an overwhelming number of people either on the "blues" side or the "shred" side. So I'm asking everyone to help me out on this question that's been on my mind for some time now. Why is it that 99% of the posts here read something along the lines of "Clapton plays with much more 'soul' than any shredder", or "The blues players bend and use vibrato so they have more 'soul' in their playing? I understand what you're trying to say but it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. First of all you think that shredders don't play with soul because? They're all technique, right? Well... guess what? BENDING and VIBRATO... are techniques! If you wanna disagree with me about any of this please do. Please come and shed light on this subject for me. Because I am obviously blind and in the dark about playing the blues.
[Edited by BadHorsie on 05-25-2001 at 12:06 PM]
[Edited by BadHorsie on 05-25-2001 at 12:06 PM]
# 1
Good Point
I think you can put a little soul or feeling,
in any Style of music or Techniques.
M.T
>keep pickin but enjoy<
[Edited by skee1 on 05-25-2001 at 12:50 PM]
I think you can put a little soul or feeling,
in any Style of music or Techniques.
M.T
>keep pickin but enjoy<
[Edited by skee1 on 05-25-2001 at 12:50 PM]
yours truly Mark Toman
# 2
yeah vibratos and bends are techniques, and maybe people who like blues, like me and others on this site are not so right when they are talking about shredders being soulless players, and yeah some of the shredders do put much feeling in their playing, but the difference is that the most important thing in shredding, or at least i and lots of people think so is to show how quick you can play, while in the blues the most important thing, is to "touch the soul" of the listeners.. the ideas behind the two styles of playing are different and i think that vai wont ever be able to play page's stuff, in the right form, altough he has better skills than page... it's hard to prove your point on argue of that kind, but my point is: in the blues, there is a special feel of the guitar, which is not found in shredding, i call this feel soul in the music, and that's all
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
# 3
Both bluesman and shredder have great technique.
I love both blues and shredding (hell I am BluesShredder
:-) )
dont hear what people say, "shredders dont have feeling" "blues are boring" its not the music or the style its the performer, there is no good or bad music there are only good and bad performers, so its not the style of music that has or not soul its the musician who reveals his soul.
About shredding, in order to play fast really fast you must think fast, and when you think you dont feel, as when you feel you dont think - thats a fact, thats how the human body works.
I agree with you Zeppelin.
By the way Buddy Guy is playing as fast as any Shredder and there is no question if he plays with soul
Blues Shredder
I love both blues and shredding (hell I am BluesShredder
:-) )
dont hear what people say, "shredders dont have feeling" "blues are boring" its not the music or the style its the performer, there is no good or bad music there are only good and bad performers, so its not the style of music that has or not soul its the musician who reveals his soul.
About shredding, in order to play fast really fast you must think fast, and when you think you dont feel, as when you feel you dont think - thats a fact, thats how the human body works.
I agree with you Zeppelin.
By the way Buddy Guy is playing as fast as any Shredder and there is no question if he plays with soul
Blues Shredder
Peter
# 4
Zeppelin shredding isnt just showing how fast you can play.
Most Shredders play as fast as they can only because they can do that, but dont judge this style of music because of them, as i said its not the style that makes music good or bad but the performer himself. Listen to Malmsteen's Concerto suite for electric guitar and then you will see what shredding is all about.
Blues Shredder
Most Shredders play as fast as they can only because they can do that, but dont judge this style of music because of them, as i said its not the style that makes music good or bad but the performer himself. Listen to Malmsteen's Concerto suite for electric guitar and then you will see what shredding is all about.
Blues Shredder
Peter
# 5
The argument people have against shred, and I think that it's often a valid one, is that the music becomes eclipsed by the technique required to produce the music. The best example of this that comes to mind is Frank Gambale. Much of music is dictated by sweep picking. He basically invented the technique, got very good at it, and then played sweep licks just because he could, not really because they fit musically, or because they were interesting melodies.
The point should be to make music. As long as the notes being played are being played for musical reasons, rather than to show technique, then the intentions are correct. Charlie Parker played very fast, and played lots of notes, but he was never boring; it was always phrased musically, and his lines always made musical sense.
The point should be to make music. As long as the notes being played are being played for musical reasons, rather than to show technique, then the intentions are correct. Charlie Parker played very fast, and played lots of notes, but he was never boring; it was always phrased musically, and his lines always made musical sense.
# 6
Well, it all depends on the musician, and whether or not he plays to impress himself or to impress others...
We are all motivated for different reasons when it comes to excelling on the guitar. For everyone, it takes time to find their sweet spot, and what type of music best represents their overall personallity, but there are a lot of musicians who get tired of searching and would rather just take the fast road to whatever sounds seem to garner them respect by legions of fans. But what really matters as a musician is whether or not you respect yourself, and if you ask me, there are a lot of musicians today who don't necessarily respect themselves because they are still unpracticed, and searching for meaning, (which shows in their music, and lack of new ideas.) But for a lot of reasons they choose to not let this bother them, because once you reach a high level of success, you tend to cast away your original intentions, and your overall love for music in an attempt to gain recognition. Fore a lot of people, being noticed is most important on their agenda...
Its hard toi explain in one (gulp), but music that is played with passion can come from just about anywhere, as long as you truly believe in the sounds you have created, and believe in yourself as well. There are too many imitators today, Ide love to see the return of the guitar heros, instead of the lame excuses of musicians that we have been forced to endure and accept.
Don;t get me wrong, there are a lot of talented musician that are still fortunate enough to grace the charts, but still theres a big void that needs to be filled. We could either waiting patiently for the next big, or we could create our own...
When it comes to blues, and shred music, the blues is what inspires me the most, and I guess it comes from my childhood and dealing with my imediate re-action as to what sounds real. But still, I love listening to Yngwie, Vai, Satriani, these guys are amazing, and I really feel thrilled that I can play a few parts from their major compsitions very accurately...
-Joseph
We are all motivated for different reasons when it comes to excelling on the guitar. For everyone, it takes time to find their sweet spot, and what type of music best represents their overall personallity, but there are a lot of musicians who get tired of searching and would rather just take the fast road to whatever sounds seem to garner them respect by legions of fans. But what really matters as a musician is whether or not you respect yourself, and if you ask me, there are a lot of musicians today who don't necessarily respect themselves because they are still unpracticed, and searching for meaning, (which shows in their music, and lack of new ideas.) But for a lot of reasons they choose to not let this bother them, because once you reach a high level of success, you tend to cast away your original intentions, and your overall love for music in an attempt to gain recognition. Fore a lot of people, being noticed is most important on their agenda...
Its hard toi explain in one (gulp), but music that is played with passion can come from just about anywhere, as long as you truly believe in the sounds you have created, and believe in yourself as well. There are too many imitators today, Ide love to see the return of the guitar heros, instead of the lame excuses of musicians that we have been forced to endure and accept.
Don;t get me wrong, there are a lot of talented musician that are still fortunate enough to grace the charts, but still theres a big void that needs to be filled. We could either waiting patiently for the next big, or we could create our own...
When it comes to blues, and shred music, the blues is what inspires me the most, and I guess it comes from my childhood and dealing with my imediate re-action as to what sounds real. But still, I love listening to Yngwie, Vai, Satriani, these guys are amazing, and I really feel thrilled that I can play a few parts from their major compsitions very accurately...
-Joseph
www.ragmagazine.com
"Swoop and soar like the blues angels."
"Swoop and soar like the blues angels."
# 7
Does it really matter? If it comes from the heart then hey, that is what it all about. Yngwie has brought me to tears the same as Stevie Ray, so if it has emotion does it matter.
# 8
Well, I think it comes down to this:
Humanity is in the imperfections. Also, vibrato is a technique thats largely up to the individual player. Nobody has quite the same vibrato. I think that bends and vibrato are more expressive than a barage of fast notes. You can make your guitar wail, moan, cry, whatever without changing strings. It's all in the fingers. If you're playing fast though, it becomes increasinly difficult to add vibrato or bends- you basicly have to stop to add it. But, realy fast notes played the right way are excellant for building tension and/or intensity in a solo. Nun Chuka Kata by Buckethead comes to mind. That's the one example of shred that I can think of that really moves me; their's this one spot where he takes the guitar someplace "higher." Then again, I don't listen to much shred, so I don't have the background to give more examples.
I can also see this in my own playing. I can throw out some ungodly fast funk bass that's impressive, but you won't find anybody dancing to it. A simple groove on the other hand...
The bottom line here is that everything has it's place, everything is related, and everything can be mutilated to work anywhere. But when it comes right down to it, some guy shaking the piss out of his B string sais a lot more to me than flawless appegros.
Humanity is in the imperfections. Also, vibrato is a technique thats largely up to the individual player. Nobody has quite the same vibrato. I think that bends and vibrato are more expressive than a barage of fast notes. You can make your guitar wail, moan, cry, whatever without changing strings. It's all in the fingers. If you're playing fast though, it becomes increasinly difficult to add vibrato or bends- you basicly have to stop to add it. But, realy fast notes played the right way are excellant for building tension and/or intensity in a solo. Nun Chuka Kata by Buckethead comes to mind. That's the one example of shred that I can think of that really moves me; their's this one spot where he takes the guitar someplace "higher." Then again, I don't listen to much shred, so I don't have the background to give more examples.
I can also see this in my own playing. I can throw out some ungodly fast funk bass that's impressive, but you won't find anybody dancing to it. A simple groove on the other hand...
The bottom line here is that everything has it's place, everything is related, and everything can be mutilated to work anywhere. But when it comes right down to it, some guy shaking the piss out of his B string sais a lot more to me than flawless appegros.
Raskolnikov
Guitar Tricks Moderator
Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again
www.GuitarTricks.com - Home of Online Guitar Lessons
Guitar Tricks Moderator
Careful what you wish for friend
I've been to Hell and now I'm back again
www.GuitarTricks.com - Home of Online Guitar Lessons
# 9
Originally posted by Raskolnikov
The bottom line here is that everything has it's place, everything is related, and everything can be mutilated to work anywhere. But when it comes right down to it, some guy shaking the piss out of his B string sais a lot more to me than flawless appegros.
yeah well that's exactly what i meant when i was talking about "bends and vibratos"
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
# 10
Probabaly the reason why blues players are seen as more soulfull is because its a lot easier to do a big bend while closing your eyes and generally getting into the sound then it is to shred. Shredders are somewhat limited to how much freedom they have to "get into it" since they have dedicate themselves mentally and physically to the demanding techniques they're performing.
I never agreed with those who say shredders don't have as much soul as blues players. Everyone has a different type of music that sends chills down their spine. If you enjoy what you're playing then to you that music will have the most soul.
But I suppose for the vast majority of the population, its easier to find "soul" in, say, B.B. King's playing then Yngwie's, simply because they can digest it better.
I never agreed with those who say shredders don't have as much soul as blues players. Everyone has a different type of music that sends chills down their spine. If you enjoy what you're playing then to you that music will have the most soul.
But I suppose for the vast majority of the population, its easier to find "soul" in, say, B.B. King's playing then Yngwie's, simply because they can digest it better.
# 11
When it comes to music, sometimes it hard for a lot of people to relate to something that sounds very fast, being that it doesn't exactly emulate the crys of a human being. But with all of the bending and wailing that comes from the blues, a lot of people are easily gravitated towards it, where the sounds easily can take them back to their past, as well as creating new memories. But still, for a lot of musicians, the music that they hear inside they're head is sometimes spinning at 100 miles per hour, where experimenting with several different fast runs helps them comes to terms with the music they are hearing inside their head.
However, when it comes to the blues, theres nothing simple about it. Because for any serious musician, its relly hard to reach that level of satisfaction, and for any musician its hard to finish a thought. What it all comes down to (in terms of what type of music has more passion) Of course its debatable. Because music deals with different emotions, sometimes you just have to let your mind go, and rely on whatever it is that you feel instead of what others expect you to feel. When a musician ties himself down to one particuar style, well then he/she is nothing more than a corporate puppet to society...
-Joseph
However, when it comes to the blues, theres nothing simple about it. Because for any serious musician, its relly hard to reach that level of satisfaction, and for any musician its hard to finish a thought. What it all comes down to (in terms of what type of music has more passion) Of course its debatable. Because music deals with different emotions, sometimes you just have to let your mind go, and rely on whatever it is that you feel instead of what others expect you to feel. When a musician ties himself down to one particuar style, well then he/she is nothing more than a corporate puppet to society...
-Joseph
www.ragmagazine.com
"Swoop and soar like the blues angels."
"Swoop and soar like the blues angels."
# 12
LISTEN DUDE, I'M NEW TO THE SITE. AND THIS IS THE FIRST THING I RESPONDED TO. HOW CAN YOU EVEN ASK THAT QUESTION???
I AM A HEAVY PLAYER(SHREAD AS YOU CALL IT) AND I GREW UP LISTENING TO SABBATH, ZEPPLIN,AEROSMITH,ALOT OF 60'S ROCK AND SO ON AND SO FORTH!! AND I PLAY HEAVY! BUT WITH ME BEING INFLUENCED BY THEM... THEY WERE GROWING UP WITH THE LIKES OF B.B. KING, CHUBBY CHECKER, CHUCK "YOU CAN SMELL MY FARTS" BERRY, BUDDY HOLLY,AND ON AND ON CAN I GO!
WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS THAT WITH OUT BLUES AND 'I FOUND MY THRILLS, ON BLUEBERRY HILL', THEN THERE WOULD BE NO "SHREAD" AND 'SEASONS IN THE ABYSS' (SLAYER). BECAUSE EVERYTHING CAME FROM BLUES... EXCEPT 'WHITE ZOMBIE'.
I AM A HEAVY PLAYER(SHREAD AS YOU CALL IT) AND I GREW UP LISTENING TO SABBATH, ZEPPLIN,AEROSMITH,ALOT OF 60'S ROCK AND SO ON AND SO FORTH!! AND I PLAY HEAVY! BUT WITH ME BEING INFLUENCED BY THEM... THEY WERE GROWING UP WITH THE LIKES OF B.B. KING, CHUBBY CHECKER, CHUCK "YOU CAN SMELL MY FARTS" BERRY, BUDDY HOLLY,AND ON AND ON CAN I GO!
WHAT I'M GETTING AT IS THAT WITH OUT BLUES AND 'I FOUND MY THRILLS, ON BLUEBERRY HILL', THEN THERE WOULD BE NO "SHREAD" AND 'SEASONS IN THE ABYSS' (SLAYER). BECAUSE EVERYTHING CAME FROM BLUES... EXCEPT 'WHITE ZOMBIE'.
"BETTER TO BURN OUT,
THEN TO FADE AWAY!"
J.B.
THEN TO FADE AWAY!"
J.B.
# 13
hey justinsane666!
i think that most metalheads are probably heavily influenced by the 70's music, which is influenced by the blues, but the big difference is that at first there was the blues, the music with the soul, after that came the hard rock, which was like the blues, but with heavier riffs, and stuff and the solos became faster but still had that blues touch, and then the metal era started, which is might be influenced by the blues, but misses its touch and feel, and overaly mostly about speeding, and heavy distortions
i think that most metalheads are probably heavily influenced by the 70's music, which is influenced by the blues, but the big difference is that at first there was the blues, the music with the soul, after that came the hard rock, which was like the blues, but with heavier riffs, and stuff and the solos became faster but still had that blues touch, and then the metal era started, which is might be influenced by the blues, but misses its touch and feel, and overaly mostly about speeding, and heavy distortions
"They think im crazy..
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
but i know better.
It is not I who am crazy.
It is I who am mad.."
ren hoek
# 14
I THINK IT IS UP TO THE PLAYER!!.BUT NOT TO BE LIMITED BY ONE STYLE..I LOVE SHREDING ( BECAUSE I CAN )I FEEL LIKE I CAN SAY WHAT EVER I WANT TO IN MY OWN WAY..IT DOESNT MEAN IM BETTER OR ANYTHING...ITS JUST MY WAY OF SPEAKING TO THE
LISTENER....I LOVE ALL STYLES OF GUITAR PLAYING...I DONT WANT TO BE LIMITED...IM 26 YEARS OLD ...IVE BEEN PLAYING 17 OF THOSE YEARS...I CAN TELL YOU THIS FROM MY EXPERIENCE..I GROW EACH YEAR IN MY PLAYING..I ALWAYS LEARN NEW THINGS.MAN...THERE ARE SOOO MANY GREAT PLAYERS OUT THERE.
BLUES..SHREDDERS..CHICKEN PICKERS..SPANISH..FLAMENCO..ETC ETC...WHO"s TO SAY WHO IS BETTER?..ITS UP TP YOU..THE LISTENER...I LOVE THEM ALL..& PLAY THEM ALL..I DONT WANT TO BE LIMITED...I WANNA SAY WHAT EVER I WANT WHENEVER I WANT & BE ABLE TO PLAY IT ..NO LIMITATIONS!! I AM A SHREDDER BY CHOICE ( OR IF YOU WANNA LABEL ME ).I LOVE IMPELLITERI.
MICHEAL ANGELO..MALMSTEEN..GILBERT..VAI..SOGOVIA..SRV..PLUS A MILLION OTHERS!!ETC ETC..DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU PLAY OR WHO YOU LIKE..( THERE ALL GOOD )ITS ALL UP TO YOU!
THE LISTENER.& IT ALL TAKES ALOT OF DEDICATION TO PLAY
ANYTHING ON THE GUITAR...
.................SOO SHRED OR BLUES????????...............
................. I CHOOSE BOTH.........................
SORRY TO BE SO LONG WINDED HAHAHA GOOD LUCK MY BROTHERS IN ALL YOU DO...REMEMBER...ITS ALL EMOTION...NO MATTER WHAT STYLE IT IS.......AN ESCAPE FOR ME...A JOB FOR OTHERS
LISTENER....I LOVE ALL STYLES OF GUITAR PLAYING...I DONT WANT TO BE LIMITED...IM 26 YEARS OLD ...IVE BEEN PLAYING 17 OF THOSE YEARS...I CAN TELL YOU THIS FROM MY EXPERIENCE..I GROW EACH YEAR IN MY PLAYING..I ALWAYS LEARN NEW THINGS.MAN...THERE ARE SOOO MANY GREAT PLAYERS OUT THERE.
BLUES..SHREDDERS..CHICKEN PICKERS..SPANISH..FLAMENCO..ETC ETC...WHO"s TO SAY WHO IS BETTER?..ITS UP TP YOU..THE LISTENER...I LOVE THEM ALL..& PLAY THEM ALL..I DONT WANT TO BE LIMITED...I WANNA SAY WHAT EVER I WANT WHENEVER I WANT & BE ABLE TO PLAY IT ..NO LIMITATIONS!! I AM A SHREDDER BY CHOICE ( OR IF YOU WANNA LABEL ME ).I LOVE IMPELLITERI.
MICHEAL ANGELO..MALMSTEEN..GILBERT..VAI..SOGOVIA..SRV..PLUS A MILLION OTHERS!!ETC ETC..DOESNT MATTER WHAT YOU PLAY OR WHO YOU LIKE..( THERE ALL GOOD )ITS ALL UP TO YOU!
THE LISTENER.& IT ALL TAKES ALOT OF DEDICATION TO PLAY
ANYTHING ON THE GUITAR...
.................SOO SHRED OR BLUES????????...............
................. I CHOOSE BOTH.........................
SORRY TO BE SO LONG WINDED HAHAHA GOOD LUCK MY BROTHERS IN ALL YOU DO...REMEMBER...ITS ALL EMOTION...NO MATTER WHAT STYLE IT IS.......AN ESCAPE FOR ME...A JOB FOR OTHERS
# 15
It seems somewhere along the line people have misunderstood my question. I was asking why everyone thinks that you can't be soulful if you are a "shredder". When I say "shredder" I don't mean mindless people who's soul purpose is to play fast. The fact that someone likes to use speed to control the feeling of a song or lead should have nothing to do with being able to play with "soul".
Ain't nothin' but a Gear thang, baby!
# 16
Please don't type in all caps.
# 17
CANCEL MY MEMBERSHIP....NOT INTERESTED IN A SITE THAT WORRIES ABOUT CAPS!... HOW STUPID....IS IT GUITAR TRICKS OR PLEASE DONT USE CAPS CAUSE ITS MY PAGE ILL BOOT YOU OFF? SO ILL SAVE YOU THE TROUBLE.... ALL THE INFO IS WRONG ON HERE ANY WAY!! TIGER CLAW? SORRY STUPID!! ITS CALLED FLUTTER...GOOD LUCK ....CAUSE YOU ARE GONNA NEED IT
# 18
Look man, he doesn't want you to type in caps cause it's hard to read for everyone else on the board. H he asked you nicely, so don't get into a hissy fit about it. You've had some good things to contribute, and I think it would be a shame for you to have to leave just because you won't stop typing in caps.
# 19
Can someone explain what shredders are ? maybe I'm one of them too but i don't know the term.
# 20
