And what about diminished chords?

i was wondering.... i never got the story about dim chords...

i know that it's the bitriad chord, the fifth is diminished by a half step (flattened right?)... i've read a lot of books about it, but in a more theorical way, you know? i know them backwards and foward in the pentagram.. i know that they can be used cadentially cause they have hell of alot "resolvesness" (we say it like that in chile, don't know in english :confused: ) but the other day i was playing a song and Bdim7 appeared and Adim7 and i didn't know how to do them on the guitar

whats the difference between the dim and the dim7 and which are their positions on the fretboard?
why does it seem that it they're all x01212 and xx7878... ¿¿??

when i solo flamenquish, i use sometimes the xx7878 to resolve it to c maj in 8th fret, suppose it's Gdim7 cause of its facillity to go to C??

so, where are they!! and... an other thing... what sounds good on top of them ?? suppose locrian or chromatic runs

The term Diminished is a loose term I always thought. Some people think of it as nothing more than a b5. There is a diminished traid (1 b3 b5), and the "diminished chord" (1 b3 b5 bb7), and the half-diminshed chord, also known as the m7b5 chord (1 b3 b5 b7).

The diminished chord (1 b3 b5 bb7) is a symetrical chord. IOW, it's created with a series of consucutive minor 3rd steps. Once you go three consecutive minor 3rd steps, you reach the root again. So, there's really no more notes you can build on top of it, in general diatonic chord building theory that is.

So, if we take a Edim chord, remember the term diminished chord means four notes, not three or anything higher than four notes, we get E G Bb Db. But since it's symentrical, either of these notes could be the root note, like this:

Edim = E G Bb Db
Gdim = G Bb Db E
Bbdim = Bb Db E G
Dbdim = Db E G Bb

So, the term "root" in this chord is fairly obsolete, except for communicating what note/root to build a particular chord from. IOW, the roots of each of these possible chords can be thought of as "enharmonic", or the same thing basically.

So, generally speaking, if a song calls for a Edim, you could more than likely play a Gdim, or a Bbdim, or a Dbdim. Because each of those chords has the exact same notes in it.

Some places where dim chords are used:

In a I ii iii ii I progression you can use a dim chord between each chord, as in the key of C here:

C C#dim Dm D#dim Em D#dim Dm C#dim C

This really spices up a iii7 ii7 Imaj7 progression, like this in the key of G:

Bm7 Abdim Am7 Gbdim Gmaj7

This is something similar to how Django and other Gypsy Jazz players would do this progression, and Jazz in general really.

Remember that even though I just say "dim" I am meaning a four note chord, not a triad. A traid might be written as a mb5 chord, like Amb5. This means 1 b3 b5. Hope that makes sense.

Now since the dim chord (4 notes) is symetrical, and the root is flexible and you'll find that there are really only three possible dim chord, and the rest are enharmonic chords of those three, persay.

Like if you play diminished chords chromatically you'll start reaching the enharmonic chord of the first at the fourth chormatic chord. Hmmm, hope that made sense. IOW, if I do them chormatically:

Edim Fdim F#dim Gdim G#dim, etc...

Once you hit the third chord Gdim you are playing the enharmonic chord of the Edim, and to continue...the G#dim is the enharmonic chord of the Fdim, and so on...

Hope that helps.

What sounds good over them? There's a few things, but nothing generally is a diatonic scale.

Since the chord is symmetrical, you can use Symmetrical scales over the chords. There are two basic scales. One is made up of consecutive Half and Whole steps. The other is the reverse, the Whole and Half step scale.

They are know as the Half-Whole Tone Scale and the Whole-Half Tone Scale.

You'll see that with each of them they'll land on the 1 b3 b5 bb7, Dig into them and notice that those chord steps remain the same between them but the notes between the chord tones are what changes and gives each of those scales it's unique sound.

You can also use a dim arppegio over them, that will always work since the arpeggio contains only the notes in the chord.

You can also branch out into other non-diatonic scales that have dim chords within them and use those scales over them.

Notce the most prominant sound of a dim chord of any kind is set up by the b5 interval from the root. This interval is known as the "tri-tone". This gives it it's strongest characteristic.

You should also notice that within a regular dominant 7th chord the tritone nterval lives inside the chord, between the M3 and the b7 of the chord. If you include the dominant 7th chords 5th in there to you end up with a dim triad built within a regular dominant 7th chord.

So now, you can start sounding out some of the diminished sounds played against a dominant 7th chord strting on either the M3 or the 5th or the b7.

When you do this you are borrowing a sound from the Phrygian Dominant based on the orignal root of your dominant 7th chord. The Dominant Phrygian scale is a mode starting on the 5th note of a Harmonic Minor scale. So, if your playing in Am, try a E Phrygian Dominant scale.

I did a tutorial on the Dominant Phrygian scale that covers some of the diminished sounds, Check it out. This is to show how to play with a more Middle-Eastern sound.

thanks man!!!!!!!! i got the whole picture now

:D



i appreciate the class! ;)