Yeah, i think both of those players could be explained as shredders...tho certainly not the same vibe as Vai or Satch,certainly no heavy distortion there, more of jazzy shred...but then listen to certain Vai songs...like "for the love of God" that song is not highly distorted...but then I guess it is not really a shred song...but played but one of the greatest shred guitarists...oh we make this so hard!!!