Originally Posted by: Axl_Rose

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovYes. Oasis and bands of a similar ilk have no business going on national or world tours nor being on major record labels.[/QUOTE]Thats ridiculous considering there is the demand for these bands.[/quote]There's a demand for assassins, too but that doesn't make it morally right.

Originally Posted by: Axl_RoseThe only reason a band like Oasis gets into a position to record and tour is because of their local success and fan base. Should they stop and say "wao, we are getting too successful, we dont deserve it, we should limit ourselves to local pubs and clubs!". Dont be ridiculous.[/quote]So if I'm a locally successful shoplifter, I should move onto becoming an international jewel thief?

What's ridiculous is that you probably consider yourself something of a musician and yet seem to have no concern for the overall quality of your craft nor the intellectual rights of your fellow artists.

Originally Posted by: Axl_Rose

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovI can think of many ORIGINAL artists who are making much better music and doing things nobody has ever heard before. I can think of a lot more who may not be doing anything revolutionary but for damn sure have a unique voice and have put forth the effort to write original songs. Shouldn't we be supporting artists like that?[/QUOTE]True. But what about the massive proportion of people who love music, yet dont go in search of these bands. The guys who listen to the radio in their cars on the way to work and enjoy a band like Oasis.[/quote]Those guys wouldn't have to go looking for good, original music if the industry was making the effort to put it on the radio for them, now would they?

Before Oasis became 'successful' and could be easily heard on the radio by our 'Average Working Man,' there came a point where a record label A&R person heard them and thought "OK, here's a quick buck" not "woah, these guys are good" or "MAN! I've never heard that before!"

The main priorities of record labels are not artistic integrity, the quality of the music they produce or what "musical heritage" we leave behind, they care about selling product. As much of it as possible. They want a large, ignorant market that isn't going to think much about what they're listening to or if they should buy it or not. It's OK if Layne Staley slowly poisons himself to death and Jerry Cantrell eeks by with his solo career; Godsmack is moving a lot of product.

Originally Posted by: Axl_RoseWhat right do you have to look down on their taste because they have more important things in their life than to care about the origin on a band like Oasis.[/quote]What "taste" are you talking about? The 'Average Working Person' isn't thinking about they're listening to any more than I think about what brand of toilet paper I wipe my heiny with. They put on a radio station they find listenable and not too distracting. And of course Oasis fits that bill -- they've stolen their material from some of the best songwriters in the past 50 years.

Originally Posted by: Axl_Rose

Originally Posted by: RaskolnikovOr should I start a band that sounds WAY too much like Guns n' Roses with a less-capable vocalist, has a note-for-note copy of Mr. Brownstone (with different lyrics), but uses the most up-to-date, ultra-modern studio techniques?[/QUOTE]Yea, you should. because Velvet Revolver played infront of about 75,000 Uk fans this year and blew them away. For many fans their it was the first time to see their idols, and a day they'll never forget. Or should we have all said "wao... this band is a GnR ripp off... outa principle Im gona deny myself this opporunity to see them because its just not right what they are doing![/quote]1). How can Slash, Duff and that drummer dude possibly plagiarize themselves?

2). Maybe it's because I haven't heard the whole album, but I haven't heard one Velvet Revolver song that sounded like Guns and Roses.

3). You utterly failed to respond to me in context: What is even remotely ethical about a person or group presenting somebody else's artwork as their own, especially for the motives of fame and fortune?

Originally Posted by: Axl_Rose

Originally Posted by: Raskolnikov1). Popularity does not mean a band is necessarily good.[/QUOTE]Im aware of this. But popularity is a sign that people are appreciating a band on some level. Be it their actual music, or image/status.[/quote]And that absolves one of screwing over the person who actually created that music how?


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]You just cant condemn people for liking a band like Oasis.

First off, yes I can. Try and stop me.

Second, since it seems to be WAY over your head, I'm pointing out that if every single member of Oasis had never existed that the world would not have been denied one single original chord progression, lyrical device, melody, bassline, rhythmic pattern, or ANYTHING that could be considered a new idea or sound. I'm also talking about the ethics of taking one person's music and presenting it as your own for your own profit.

And the ONLY thing you seem to be able to say here to justify your support for the band is that "a lot of people (most importantly, you) like it."

A lot of people liked the Holocaust, too.


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]Most people have far better/worse things to worry about in life than how one of their fave bands is actualyl unoriginal and guilty of plaigarism.

Which is why I don't hold "most people" to the same standards that I hold my fellow musicians or the music industry.

Just because I don't expect your average consumer to know what I know about my profession (Printing), it doesn't mean that I think it's OK for people within my profession to rip off our consumers or each other.


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]Im going to see oasis in the summer, I like thier music, it'll be a great day out, but according to your believes I and the other 75,000 people that will go to that gig are all fools and shouldnt be encouraging a band like Oasis.

Well, I can't speak for 74,999 of them...


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]Basically I think you need to get a life because none of your comments bare any relevance to actually listening to, and enjoying music.

Of course not. I could fart into a microphone and find PLENTY of people who thought it was GREAT. Individual taste in music is irrelevant here because, for all practical purposes, it's infinite (and if you get right down to it, if somebody hears something enough times, they can grow to like anything).

What is relevant is the question of "does likability or popularity excuse one from having done something morally wrong?"

Is it OK to be a rapist if a lot of people like you and/or like to watch the act? Is it OK to walk around hitting people in the head with a baseball bat if everybody else thinks it's funny?


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]Im sorry but when bands like Oasis come on the juke box in the pub, everyone will enjoy it.

No, not everybody.


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]When one of their songs comes on the radio when Im driving I'll sing along and it makes me happy.

Good for you.

What about the people they ripped off? What about the countless other bands out there you'd like just as much, if not more who made the effort to do something original who will never get the never get the recognition they rightfully earned because some A&R guy decided to throw some money at a Beatles ripoff band?


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]I used to be like you.

Oh, how cute! It thinks it understands me!


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]I used to defend and attack certain bands based on stupid principles.

What is so stupid about expecting famous bands to not steal their music from other artists?


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]Hating all songs that were in the pop category and trying to appreciate all the bands from the genres I liked.

First off, I appreciate and respect a lot more artists and genres than I enjoy listening to. Second, I have very little respect for a lot of bands in the genres that I enjoy because for varying reasons they've shown that they don't deserve it. Third, I'm more than capable of looking past an artist's personal flaws (or positive traits) and evaluate their music objectively; I may think Aaron Barrett from Reel Big Fish is a neurotic prick, but I still think he writes good songs whereas I think the guys in POD are cool people, but their band is horrible.


[QUOTE=Axl_Rose]Seriously, get a life. Music is music. Its their to be appreciated. If you dont appreciate a band then dont listen to em, and dont get jealous of their success becasue you think they dont deserve it.

Your first comment on how they shouldnt go on national tours etc sums it all up. Thats just utterly stupid.

What's "utterly stupid" is that you actually expect people to blindly accept anything you think. Especially since you are so unwilling to accept the opinions of those who disagree with you.

Sorry, I have a free will, I have my own mind and if I think plagiarism is wrong, then I'm going to exercise my right to say so. If I think Oasis (or any band/artist) has made no meaningful contributions to the world of music, then I'm going to say so. In either case, I'm going to cite examples and I'm going draw parallels to firm up my case, and if you can't disprove my logic, then that's your problem. I'm within the forum rules and my rights as a sentient being.

It is not mine nor anybody else's duty to make your thoughts, opinions, or likes any more comfortable or sacred than anybody else's.