What's it between modes and scales?

my english ain't perfect, so I'll try to be as clear as I can in this

I've been studying scales since a few days and I can find a major scale for every note *so proud of that :p*, but then I started working on the following modes: Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian and Locrian

as I was checking the G-maj (as shown below) I saw that it was exaxtly like the Ionian mode (if I didn't make any mistakes..)

G-maj
e|-----2--3-----5----|
B|--------3-----5----|
G|-----2-----4--5----|
D|-----2-----4--5----|
A|-----2--3-----5----|
E|--------3-----5----|
so I checked all major scales, and now I don't understand how the modes work and why they're like this, 'cause I would expect B-maj to be the Phrygian mode, though it wasn't.. I need help in this :confused:

The Ionian mode is the same as the major scale, just like C# is the same as Db.

so I just confused all the modes with 'being names for the scales', big mistake :o

I just found your exercises across all seven modes which I printed some months ago :) gonna look into it a little bit more now this is clear, thnx!

[edit]also found a long forgotten note from two years ago stating that Aeolian is the mode for minor.. now I just need to figure out the rest[/edit]

[2nd edit]just one last question, a major scale or Ionian mode uses the following sequence:
1 - 1 - 1/2 - 1 - 1 - 1 - 1/2
and minor scale or Aeolian mode uses:
1 - 1/2 - 1 - 1 - 1/2 - 1 - 1

so are the other modes just a different sequence? ..or I am thinking in the wrong direction here..

Right on GuitarPsy,

All scales and modes have a "formula" for figuring them out given only the tonic. Whole tone intervals are written as W, and half tone intervals as H. The intervals in brackets are simply the distance from the last note of the scale to the octave. You have already got the Ionian and Aeolian formulas, and the others are as follows:

Dorian: WHWWWH(W)
Phrygian: HWWWHW(W)
Lydian: WWWHWW(H)
Mixolydian: WWHWWH(W)
Locrian: HWWHWW(W)

Hope that helps!

If i'd known this two days ago I would've gotten in bed early :p still, thnx for replying about it! yesterday I send a message to The Ace about scales and modes though it's not personally directed at him. Here's the message:

I just got one issue I need conformation about.. you said:
'The Dorian mode starts on the 2nd note of the Ionian scale, The step by step scale is: WHWWWHW:'
when you take the same notes from Ionian and begin on the second it's logical that WWHWWWH becomes WHWWWHW (because you shift one position upwards, just like shifting two positions upwards from Ionian makes Phrygian: HWWWHWW)
please tell me I'm right with my lil' explanatory theory ;)

so if I'm correct this means that the following modes will use the same notes: (when played from the correct root(Key))
Key: C Ionian
Key: D Dorian
Key: E Phrygian
Key: F Lydian
Key: G Mixolydian
Key: A Aeolian
Key: B Locrian

then this means that when someone says: 'This Metallica solo is in E Phrygian', you can also play it in C Ionian, though it sounds 'lower'?

modes are the most confused of all things on earth

did you get my reply to that? did it clear things up a bit?

Originally Posted by: The Acedid you get my reply to that? did it clear things up a bit?

yeah you did, I finally understand it now :) kinda surprised because off the way you work looking at your age ;) haven't exactly experienced good things with others.. ah hell, mentally I'm no older then 14 :p

ok, i thought i knew the modes until i read this......Dr_Simon, are you sure your lessons on the modes are correct? i have read sooooo much stuff on modes and they all have different scales for the same mode. so two articles will give me two different scales for one mode and these scales start the same but then change a few notes (the actual notes are different, not just the fingering). i think your lessons are correct, but i just want to clarify considering i have read soooo much stuff and they all contradict each other :confused: :confused: :confused:

the notes you will play depend on what note you begin a mode (the tonic)

for example: if you start Ionian (the major-scale) on C, the notes you will hear are: C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C, that's because the Ionian-mode uses the following intervals: (W = whole note, H = half note) WWHWWWH

you can check it on your guitar: you got C-C#-D-D#-E-F-F#-G-G#-A-A#-B-C and if you count WWHWWWH you get the notes of the Ionian-mode (also called the major scale)

if you're gonna play Dorian on C you get different intervals: WHWWWHW, thus different notes, which makes the scale Dorian C sound the way it sounds

that's all to know about modes, each has it's own sound, the scales are just modes played on a certain note :)

to quote an email from The Ace:

When you are playing in E phrygian you are playing the notes from C Ionian...(just check it, you'll see) just make sure you know that these two scales have different qualities, primarily that Ionian is major and phrygian is minor. Always remember that a solo or melody will revolve around one mode, and although the notes in E phrygian and C Ionian are the same, the moods they create are different

Originally Posted by: wakytabakiok, i thought i knew the modes until i read this......Dr_Simon, are you sure your lessons on the modes are correct?
[/Quote]
yes

Originally Posted by: wakytabaki
i have read sooooo much stuff on modes and they all have different scales for the same mode.
[/quote]
theirs 5 different ways to play any scale over an octave

Originally Posted by: wakytabaki
so two articles will give me two different scales for one mode and these scales start the same but then change a few notes (the actual notes are different, not just the fingering).

Check out a book called "Fretboard Logic" by Bill Edwards. There's a link to it in my bar chords and voicing tutorial.
[QUOTE=wakytabaki]
i think your lessons are correct,

Good, they are.
[QUOTE=wakytabaki]
but i just want to clarify considering i have read soooo much stuff and they all contradict each other :confused: :confused: :confused:

Glad we have sorted that out. The purpose of that lesson was not so much as exercise as to show how all the modes fit together, how they are derived and what they sound like. Not to give scale shapes.

thank you guys soooo much!!! you have made it all ALOT clearer!

cheers guitarpsy and dr_simon