Russian School

If you havent heard it by now but these militants took this russian school hostage that had women little chilendren ect..there was a raid today to free them and quite a lot escaped but the militans fired at the fleeing people..so far the death toll is above 150 I believe...I tihnk that its pretty messed up to take a school hostage..What do you guys think about it?

That's not quite what happened. There was not a deliberate raid today to free them.

What happened was a van pulled up to the building to help the people wounded in the taking of the hostages. This was understood by both sides to be a peaceful action without incident. This was the start of what was looking to be peaceful negotiations. However, some kids misunderstood it as a rescue attempt and bolted.

This was the mistake right here. The terrorists, instead of letting the kids go as a sign of good faith (which they would have done if had they been thinking rationally and not panicking) opened fire on the running kids to stop them. This forced the nearby troops to fire upon the terrorists to save the kids lives.

Upon hearing the gunfire one of the terrorists set off his suicide belt in the gymnasium which basically sent the entire area into confusion due to collateral explosions and Russia was forced to swarm the place with every available man and get as many people out alive as possible before the building collapsed and/or the terrorists killed every hostage.


While the incident was horrible and many people were injured and killed the Russian authorities at the scene deserve a lot of credit for their quick thinking. Their understanding of the situation and willingness to risk going into a very dangerous situation probably saved the life of every hostage who made it out alive.

I was just going off what a friend told me so I figured id be wrong but that is still pretty low to take a school hostage..I was sorta shocked when the militants wouldnt let them collect the dead bodies on the street when it first started.I think they came to an agreement where they could get the dead bodies

it should probley be noted: Theese arent Al qaeda terrorist

They are Czhecks fighting for independance from Russia,Alot of them are calling them selves black widows[Women] There fighting in place for there husbands who died fighting for this independance,Im not sticking up for them i Just want it known so no one gets confused on who this is and why they are doing it.

When everything went down the "collection" was agreed on by both sides. Peaceful negotiations were actually starting to happen until that one terrorist panicked.

Well, not too peaceful. Knowing Russia's policy on terrorism none of the bad guys had any secure chance of walking away alive or having their demands met.

What did they want, anyways?

~Incidents

I didn't hear but I'm willing to bet it was either the release of a political prisoner or for Russian troops to withdraw from their region, probably the later.

Assholes like that get no respect whatsoever and only enrage people to the point where people will refuse to give in to their demands.

'People' who use children as pawns and sheilds in their causes should be shot and pissed on.
:mad:

They were 35 attackers — heavily-armed and explosive-laden men and women (essential for managing unarmed woman and children !) who were reportedly demanding independence for Chechnya.

I think they were the same group that downed those two planes at the beginning of last week.

And the world is now a safer place is it dubayu ?

I see the war on terror is working !!!

The Terrorism between Chencnya and Russia has no relation to us and is none of our affairs. We didn't do anything to cause or prevent this, it's entirely their internal ballpark.

It would also be a very dangerous and stupid move to try giving any kind of military/anti-terrorism aid to Russia right now. This is because-
-we would become targets and we're not prepared to face the kind of terrorism these people are capable of
-It would be a serious insult to Russia because we would basically be telling them we don't think they can control their own country. This isn't generic third party terrorism, it's undeclared civil war.
-Our resources are spread too thin as is.
-Russia will be more brutal to the terrorists than we would be and I think that's closer to justice. For example, the arrests. We would arrest, imprison, and question the people associated with the attack. Russia kicks down their door and puts two bullets in their face. Seriously, none of the organizers of this who have been 'arrested' so far made it out the door alive.

This thing between russian and chechnya has been happening for a long long time (before dubya was born) so Dr Simon sayin that bush's "war on terror" plan isnt workin is stupid and shows that you dont know much about the russian-chechen conflict..
for those who dont know heres a brief summary. If USA were to get involved in this, it would only cause more problems then its worth

Here's a quote from "Russia vs. Chechnya for Dummies":

"The Russian-Chechen conflict we know today began decades ago with the attempt of the Muslim province to secede in 1810. Russia's attempts to keep the oil pipeline holding province has been successful but violent and continues today.

In 1990, after the fall of the U.S.S.R. many nations seceded from the Soviet Republic, including Georgia, Latvia, and Ukraine. Russia had several reasons to keep Chechnya, but they wanted to make an example out of Chechnya and attack the breakaway province in order to maintain ownership. When former Chechen president Dudaev declared independance in 1994, Boris Yeltsin declared war, and Former Chechen president Muskhadov declared independance again in 1999 and on and off fighting has continued.

President Vladimir Putin continues to attack Chechnya, today in order to stifle the Muslim movement against Russia."

Originally Posted by: PonyOne after your dad is imprisoned for nothing and beaten to near death, your sister is raped, your friends are killed because someone decided to fire a tank round into an apartment building because there are suspected militants in it, are you going to feel much empathy for these people??? no, and all it takes is some religious nut who steps in, who tells you what you want to hear... you agree with him, you are willing to fight for what you believe in, what he has taught you... now there is no more humanity, there is only you, and them.

so you go and blow up a school/bus/mall/plane/hospital/etc, becuase they're all evil pigs. the people who survive are driven to insanity and decide that they must get vengance, so they go to chechna and rape, murder, etc. the cycle continues. more people die.

Precisely - and that is exactly why war on terror will not work. I guess it requires more balls than anyone on this planet actually has to break this diabolical cycle.
i dont realy see an end to all this. i see big wars coming. and i only see hope when mankind is reduced into almost nothingness so that those who remain will learn from their faults and make it better.
i hope some day we will evolve beyond the need for revenge at any cost. as much as technology has developed during the past centuries, as little has the human mind.

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15This thing between russian and chechnya has been happening for a long long time (before dubya was born) so Dr Simon sayin that bush's "war on terror" plan isnt workin is stupid and shows that you dont know much about the russian-chechen conflict..
.

Rubbish, the world is the world, it doesn't stop out side the US !
One good thing that has come out of the war on terror is that funds for the IRA via NorAid, from the US thank you very much have dried up.

The war on terror has been marketed by GWB as a war on all terror not just terror against the US. It is a sales pitch to get other countries to pay for GWBs military victories (as they are perceived by the US electorate) which makes the US voters think... gee we are in danger an GWB is the only one who can save us.

It is also not sure how clever it is to be calling moderators stupid !

Originally Posted by: ketsueki15This thing between russian and chechnya has been happening for a long long time (before dubya was born) so Dr Simon sayin that bush's "war on terror" plan isnt workin is stupid and shows that you dont know much about the russian-chechen conflict..
for those who dont know heres a brief summary. If USA were to get involved in this, it would only cause more problems then its worth

The Russian-Chechen conflict we know today began decades ago with the attempt of the Muslim province to secede in 1810. Russia's attempts to keep the oil pipeline holding province has been successful but violent and continues today.

In 1990, after the fall of the U.S.S.R. many nations seceded from the Soviet Republic, including Georgia, Latvia, and Ukraine. Russia had several reasons to keep Chechnya, but they wanted to make an example out of Chechnya and attack the breakaway province in order to maintain ownership. When former Chechen president Dudaev declared independance in 1994, Boris Yeltsin declared war, and Former Chechen president Muskhadov declared independance again in 1999 and on and off fighting has continued.

President Vladimir Putin continues to attack Chechnya, today in order to stifle the Muslim movement against Russia.

It's a good idea to credit your sources. I've edited your original post.

opps my bad..it sorta slipped my mind..i was in that mode I guess you could say
http://conflict.gq.nu/Lower.htm
however doctor simon I dont recall calling you stupid but more or less saying your idea on bushs plan on terrorism is supposed to help some conflict that started a century ago is stupid

Originally Posted by: Dr_simon...dubayu ?...

:D
You've got to be really pissed off.
Dubayu, LOL.

I'm really impressed with Dr. Simon on these topics. He's like a less-radical Incidents Happen that allows me to not post as much!

~Incidents