Beginner desperate for help ...

Firstly hi to all, what a great place you've got here. Before I start throwing all kinds of questions, I have to say sorry because they have all probably been asked before and I did do alot of reading on the forum but only to get confused with the large amount of information so I collect my own questions here, if you cant bother answering just please point me to the related threads. Thanks !!

1. What is the sequence of work for composing a song: (melody, scale, key, chord, chord progression .. )

From what I think, you just come up with a melody first, then you figure out which scale it is in, then you figure out what chord is allowed and then you group chord together in some kind of order (what order?) or based on the notes. And once you get the scale and the chord you come up with a way to play along the song using the notes in the scale and the chord. Is that true ??

I am particularly confused with the bit that we have to stay in the scale the contain ALL the notes of our melody. Please explain.

2. What is the sequence of work for composing a solo: I first thought it would be the same as composing a song but later think differently. Do we compose solos based on the scale of our song (i.e. the note in the solo has to be in the scale)? We dont come up with it so randomly as our melody right?

3. From 1 and 2, I come up with another question: can the song be in many different scale?


Thanks so much and wait for your responses.

Originally Posted by: RedCross1. What is the sequence of work for composing a song: (melody, scale, key, chord, chord progression .. )

From what I think, you just come up with a melody first, then you figure out which scale it is in, then you figure out what chord is allowed and then you group chord together in some kind of order (what order?) or based on the notes. And once you get the scale and the chord you come up with a way to play along the song using the notes in the scale and the chord. Is that true ??

Everybody has there own way, some start with chords some start with a melody. Both ways are correct, but what I suggest is using the one you feel more creative with. If you gets melodic ideas, it's good to start with a melody. If your ideas spawn from thinking up chord progressions, then start there.

I usually start with a rhythm pattern. Maybe a drum loop. You can find hundreds on the internet. Once I find one I like. I figure out a melody, then a bass line. Then the chord progression. This is easy cause I can see the bass playing C while the melody goes G E F. C E and G make up the C major chord, so I can consider using a C major chord there. Then I work threw the rest of the melody.

I am particularly confused with the bit that we have to stay in the scale the contain ALL the notes of our melody. Please explain.

It just keeps things in order. You don't want a melody in C and a chord progression in Ab. They should both be equal.

2. What is the sequence of work for composing a solo: I first thought it would be the same as composing a song but later think differently. Do we compose solos based on the scale of our song (i.e. the note in the solo has to be in the scale)? We dont come up with it so randomly as our melody right?

Solo should be written just like a melody would, after all that's what it is. Chords are sometimes used but generally the reinforce the melody. Solos however are not as linear as a melody might be. Ornamentation is a good trick. The most common is a trill.

3. From 1 and 2, I come up with another question: can the song be in many different scale?

Yes. songs can change keys, the process is called modulation. The most common is to a relative key. i.e. C major to A minor.

If you have any other questions, I'd be glad to help.

just want to thank you for now !! I will flood the forum with lots more. Thanks !

Originally Posted by: noticingthemistakeYes. songs can change keys, the process is called modulation. The most common is to a relative key. i.e. C major to A minor.

What about non-relative key changes? Is that something that only jazz dudes do? What does that sound like? Pretty dissonant I'd imagine as there'd be less tones in common.

Originally Posted by: LeedoggWhat about non-relative key changes?

It's possible to go to any key. There is always a common chord. Even when there seem to be none, there's the diminished 7th chord. Which in this chord, each note can be considered the root. Also chords can be altered, to in turn create a common chord.

Is that something that only jazz dudes do?

No. All styles of music have modulations. Beethoven was known for his bold and dramatic key changes. Bach wrote the "well temper clavier" to demonstrate to uses of modulation.

What does that sound like?

Chords themselves can pretty much go anywhere. What matters is the voice leading of the chords. Dissonance is a good thing. Take the tri tone substitution with a common chord progression (ii-V7-I). Instead play this ii - bII7 - I. This is a perfect case where dissonance is better.

The most common problem that newbies occurs when dealing with modulation is the use of the tonic dominant function. Anytime a modulation occurs it's good to play a cadence at the point of modulation. This secures the key change.

Originally Posted by: RedCross1. What is the sequence of work for composing a song: (melody, scale, key, chord, chord progression .. )

Whatever works for you. I usually start with a few riffs in mind from messing around while practicing and then build off that with the band. That is, quickly get together working bass and drum parts, roughly arrange a pattern to the parts, and then play through it a couple times while the singer improvs over it until we get a vocal line. After that we refine, add/remove parts, rewrite instrumental lines to better fit the big picture, and add a solo if appropriate. Then we play the song to criticism from a few people, and finish it by their suggestions. This isn't all set in stone, btw. The best song I've helped write was written almost entirely by our drummer.

You won't find yourself messing with theory a lot in composition past a certain point. Your ear is the most valuable tool you have.

I am particularly confused with the bit that we have to stay in the scale the contain ALL the notes of our melody. Please explain.

Some scales are pretty interesting, if you know what I mean. ;)

2. What is the sequence of work for composing a solo: I first thought it would be the same as composing a song but later think differently. Do we compose solos based on the scale of our song (i.e. the note in the solo has to be in the scale)? We dont come up with it so randomly as our melody right?

The solo should be in the same key as the background, although 'color notes' are perfectly acceptable if used well.

3. From 1 and 2, I come up with another question: can the song be in many different scale?

It can change keys but you don't want to try playing in more than one key at once.