New software/equipment

Okay guys, I'm looking to totally upgrade my recording system at home. This is what I currently use-

Now
--------------------
Cakewalk Guitar Tracks II
Shure PG-50 (or something like that)

Okay, sure that works okay for recording one track at a time, but I record full-jam sessions now, and one mic isn't the quality I'd like. I have a good sound card (Creative Labs Audigy 2) , and i'm not really sure that I'd need anything more advanced than that (let me know if i'm wrong). Now here are the requirements. Must be computer based, and very good. I need three new mics that won't break (that could be used for studio and live, and are good). I know now, Doc, that you like the external stuff, but i love the computer based stuff more than anything, and there's no way I'm moving to something other than computer-based. Now then, As for software, I've heard that Cubase SX is really good, as well as Pro Tools. Now I know that I could search the thread archives (and I have), but opinions change over time and the Recording forum is pretty sleepy, so let's wake it up!

~Incidents

Note: this is my first "help" post in a VERY long time!

Well basically your stuffed if you want to use that horrible sound card.

You are going to need an input for each mic and at the moment you are stuck with 1 as you only have one input. You could feed your mics into a desk and then mix everytihng to mono but that is probably a little less effective that just using one mic and pointing it at the band.

In other words if you want to record more than one track at a time and then edit and mix it you are going to have to get some more kit.

There are pleanty of multi IO "break out" boxes out there but then you need to make sure your computer is up to the job. Check out M-audio (OK and good bang for your buck) or RME audio (ie the hammerfall seris or the digi8/96 PAD which is the one I use) or tihngs like these . Oh and remember that anything that goes throughthe Audgiy over a 16 bit depth resolution will be processed at 16 bit. Bin the Creative labs card dude !!!

As far as softwere is concerned I like Sonar, it is expencive but their is nothing it can't do.

Doc, the Audigy 2 is 24 bit. It cost about $110 extra to get when i bought my computer (here are the specs). I agree that the 16-bit CL sound cards suck horribly , but i have surround sound with my audigy 2, and the sound is quite good. here's my comp stats.

3.06 GHZ w/ 800 MHZ Front Bus
512 DDRAM
120 GB Harddrive
Windows XP

etc. It's one of the best out there.

Now, I'm not really on a tight budget. I have $4000 in the bank, i'm willing to spend about $600 on a recording software program, and i'll probably just get a few good shure mics.

~Incidents

If you are indifferent to advice why are you asking questions?

The sound card is bad. It is consumer level and is not made for professional quality recording.

Here are the comments of one professional sound engineer I know on the Creative labs cards.

That asides you still don't have enough inputs band how are you going to interface with the XLR backs of the SM57s / SM58s ?
There are no XLR inputs on the cards ! Even i there were you could only use 2 (stereo L and R- Id forget about the RCA inputs) at one given time.

One solution may be to record to a desk and mix there in which there is no point in having posh mixing software.

AS far as software goes if you are willing to drop 600 bucks o it Id go for Sonar 3. However to take full advantage of this you will need to have the appropriate hardware, like enough Mic's.

You may also find that latency becomes a huge issue with this card if you are recording at a high bit rate / sampling frequency. I saw the specs in the Creative website and in order to get the latency down (at192/24) they had to drop a channel and record in mono. This is the opposite of what you want.

My advice is buy a Tascam portastudio with 4 SM57 / 58s.

You can then import the tracks from the portastudio into the computer later and mix, edit etc at a later date. You can also then export the tracks as MP3s etc

OR you will need a digital interface like the TASCAM

Originally Posted by: Dr_simonIf you are indifferent to advice why are you asking questions?

The sound card is bad. It is consumer level and is not made for professional quality recording.

Here are the comments of one professional sound engineer I know on the Creative labs cards.

That asides you still don't have enough inputs band how are you going to interface with the XLR backs of the SM57s / SM58s ?
There are no XLR inputs on the cards ! Even i there were you could only use 2 (stereo L and R- Id forget about the RCA inputs) at one given time.

One solution may be to record to a desk and mix there in which there is no point in having posh mixing software.

AS far as software goes if you are willing to drop 600 bucks o it Id go for Sonar 3. However to take full advantage of this you will need to have the appropriate hardware, like enough Mic's.

You may also find that latency becomes a huge issue with this card if you are recording at a high bit rate / sampling frequency. I saw the specs in the Creative website and in order to get the latency down (at192/24) they had to drop a channel and record in mono. This is the opposite of what you want.

My advice is buy a Tascam portastudio with 4 SM57 / 58s.

You can then import the tracks from the portastudio into the computer later and mix, edit etc at a later date. You can also then export the tracks as MP3s etc

OR you will need a digital interface like the TASCAM

I do appreciate your advice, Its just that guess I didn't know that the Audigy 2 was crap. Man, that's a bummer...

Hey Doc, the SM57's and SM58's are basically the standard by which all mics seem to be judged; my band is very much more instrumental than vocal (To an extreme, we typically jam for 45 minutes before doing some vocals). I'll get SM57's for the vocals, but do you think the SM58's will be good enough for miking the instruments, or are there better mics that are just as durable?

Also, I've heard of people using two mics per amp, I assume two reasons- 1.) gives you two options on the final record if you're recording a track and the problem isn't your playing, but the mic placement. and 2.) I suppose it makes it sound thicker if you put the mics at variable distances and have them sent to seperate speakers?

~Incidents

SM58s are generally thought of as vocal mics and 57s as instrument mics. The both have cardiod response patterns which means they pick up stuff in front of them and reject noise from other instruments behind and to either side. SM57s are great for guitar and toms however you may run into problems when miking the drum kit. (two 57s for the snare (one above one below) one 57 for each tom, two overheads for the cymbals (57s don't really have enough top end for this)and maybe a mic for the HH and another kick drum mic. There are lots of choices for the O/Hs and the KD mic, check out music123.com or similar. Shure do a drum package for fairly cheap (that is 5-8 of your inputs used up already).

The 57s and 58s are not the gold standards, studios will normally use a large diaphragm condenser for vocals, much more expensive and much more sensitive (and also much more fragile). They are however the staple of live musicians because they are very good bang for your buck and very hard wearing.

Personally I prefer a '57 for my voice, but that is just me !

To start with I'd stick to one mic per amp etc until you get your head round what is "should" sound like. The reason I say thins is that you can run into phase cancelation problems with two mics on the same source and that just means problems. By all means experiment once you have something you are happy with however you will also discover that mic placement vastly effects the sound you get going onto tape, and Id worry about that first. Besides if you have 2 or 3 guitarists and a bass that is another 5 inputs, you are up to 12 with out having any ambient mics.

One solution to the vast number of inputs required is to sub-mix the drums and mix them down to stereo L&R before sending then into your computer however with DrumsL&R, Guit1, Guit2, Bass, Bass DI, Vox1 & Vox2/Guit3) you are still looking at a desk and 8 simultaneous inputs and that is going to cost. Then you have to work out latency / configuration and monitoring. On the day you can use isolation headphones however when you mix for real, you are going to want monitors, plugins (Waves native gold comes in at 1K) etc.

This is why I bang on about a standalone DAWs being a god idea for people who are starting out. I'd think long and hard about a Korg D1600 mk II which (second hand) will cost less than the plugins for Sonar / Wavelab alone.

Yeah, The Shure mics should be good enough for recording jams in my basement + live (ha! I had them backwards sm57 and sm58.)

I have a friend who's working on getting me a copy of Cubase SX 2.0 off of Limeware (i'm paying him $30 if it'll work) so hopefully that'll save me $570! Ha!

Er...the above was a........er..........joke;), FBI........haha

Hey Doc, you think getting a USB connected transporter thing would be a good idea for extra inputs?

~Incidents

yep, you may want to get one from an online store so you an give it a try for a month and make sure it dose everything you want it to. If it is a nightmare you can always return it no questions asked.
PCI will probably be faster than USB which may be in issue if you are running multiple inputs simultaneously.

Id also still think about a D1600. you can always export stuff to your PC for editing later if needs be !

Bickity Bam! PreSonus just released the Firepod, a firewire interface featuring 8 XLR/TRS inputs, including 2 inputs for instruments for about $600.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/184131/

This is a great price for this many inputs, the only other good option near this range with as many inputs is the MOTU 828 MarkII. And the Firepod comes with Cubase LE which should be good enough to get you off and running, although if you get that copy of SX 2.0 that would be better.

Like I've said before, there's never been a better time for getting a firewire/USB interface, although most USB interfaces only have 2 inputs. Your computer looks like it should be up to the task of running quite a few tracks, although for top performance you'll want a second hardd rive to host your project files and audio with each hard drive as a master on its own IDE channel.

What have you got in mind for monitors? Obviously what your hearing should be accurate and uncolored.

I'm starting to really agree with Doc now; I need a mobile unit that can not only record stuff in my basement, but gigs and jams at other places. Thanks!

~Incidents