Soloing????????

to all guitar masters....

every mode has its own unique and characteristic sound, right? in a same progression for instance,
1. How would you emphasize the spacey sound of lydian..so also with the other characteristic of modes...
2. how should i make my solo not just a scale but it is a mode...
pls..shred a light for me.....tnx.....

in every scale there is a mode per se....like the C major scale..the third mode of the C major scale is the E Phrygian
Just play around with lydian for awhile and you will eventually find somthing...Go look up some steve vai stuff...from what ive heard he uses the lydian mode alot

It's basically like this...

Every key is made up of 7 notes. And each one of those notes, if you use it as a starting point, is a mode. Like ketsueki said, in C major, E as a starting point is E phrygian. E phrygian scale is E F G A B C D E. All the notes of the C major scale just a different starting position, E. SO now when you go to write out a chord progression, you can think of each chord being assigned to a particular mode. Take this simple progression C F G7. Each chord if you using the C major scale is a different mode. C of course is C Ionian or major, F is lydian, and G7 is mixolydian.

FOr a simple player it's easier just to think of the C major scale when soloing over this progression. But much can be substituted. What I mean by this is instead of using the lydian mode over the F chord. A player may choose to use the Ionian mode instead (F major scale).

The same can be done with all the chords, but some guidelines should be followed at first. Then broken once you have some experience. These are, modes should only be substituted with the same tonal center triad. Major modes with major modes, and minor onces with minor ones.

The major modes are Ionian, lydian, and mixolydian.
The minor modes are dorian, phrygian, and Aeolian.
Locrian is diminished and is rarely substituted.

FOr your first question, subbing the lydian for the Ionian mode is quiet common. Both are closely related. The altered #4 creates a leading tone to the 5th over the root chord. So if you were playing over a C major chord and you were going to G in a run, F# (lydian) is a good leading tone to G.

In vice versa, subbing the ionian mode for the lydian leaves you with a perfect fourth interval over a major chord. Important because a perfect fourth over the root of a chord is called a suspension. AN importnant note in melodic writting.

Whether to use either is a question of where you go next. Sus4 natural resolves down to the 3rd. The Aug4 (#4) resolves up to the 5th. The sus4 can resolve up to the 5th, but the #4 is IMO more colorful and modern sounding.

The mixolydian mode is an odd ball when subbing with the other major modes. The b7 is a tricky and questionable change. USing the harmonic minor mode 'spanish phrygian' is the better and most common substitute for the mixolydian mode.

All the minor modes mix together well. Whether the 2nd and 6th are flat or natural over a minor chord are a question of color. Whether you want it or not, neither question the minor chords integrity.

Got it?

I learned it like that initially, but later found it better to find out the differences between the scales, so you can seamlessly integrate them in. For example, to create a mixolydian scale, find the key's ionian scale, and just make it a b7 instead of a 7, and you have it. Or lydian, just # the 4th. get the idea?

~Incidents

correct me if im wrong but what i understand is..when using mode...like noticingmistake progression (C-F-G7) you mean to use lydian mode you shoud start at E and it shoud be your root note? (wrong?)..

what im doing attack to the progression(C-F-G7) is C lydian mode...is this correct or i should take E...im a bit bitch...

Originally Posted by: kin_nanaketdicorrect me if im wrong but what i understand is..when using mode...like noticingmistake progression (C-F-G7) you mean to use lydian mode you shoud start at E and it shoud be your root note? (wrong?)..

Using the E lydian scale over the progression C F G7 is gonna cause you alot of confliction. Take the chords C F G7 and see what notes are in those chords.

C - C E G
F - F A C
G7 - G B D F

Now here's the E lydian scale. E F# G# A# B C# D#.

There are only 2 common notes, E and B. So making this scale fit with the chords and making a good sounding solo out of it will be difficult if not impossible. It would sound like you were playing the solo in a completely different key than the chord progression.

what im doing attack to the progression(C-F-G7) is C lydian mode...is this correct or i should take E...im a bit bitch...

Using C lydian over the chord progression would work. When comparing the notes between the scale and the chords, they are much more compatiable. C lydian over the C major chord will work brilliantly. And although the F is an F#, A and C (F major chord) are still in the C lydian scale. SO you still have somewhere to go. In the G7 chord the same difference occurs, the F in the G7 is natural. While in the C lydian scale it is sharp (F#). But then again there are three other notes in common. G B and D are in the C lydian scale.

Remember what I said, it's all about compatiability. Any major mode will work with any major chord, and so on. Since C F G7 are all major chords and the lydian mode is a major mode. Very little conflict occurs.

You could even use C mixolydian over that chord progression. Bb is the only difference and the note B only occurs in the G7 chord. Then again Bb is the "b3" or "major blues note" over a G7 chord. So it is acceptable. You will find that alot of rock solos use this example of soloing in C mixolydian over the progression C F G7 (or any sequence in C major).

The C lydian scale over the progression C F G7 is used more in metal and harder or bluesier rock. Like the example given, Steve Vai.

I know it's alot to swallow but if you learn this, alot of possibilities will open up to you. Even how to break the fundamental rule I first stated. Even to know how to make a mode like E lydian work with a chord sequence in C major. But that's a how other chapter.

now i understand how....thanks you..noticingmistake....thank you sir....this forum is a big help for idiot like me.

After all this theoretical stuff (it's important - no doubt) i'd like to remind you of the second, and IMO more important aproach to soloing (and music in general). Knowing all this theory is fine and it will help you out when you are stuck. I´d suggest you use it as some sort of security system when your ear and heart can't help you anymore.

What i´m talking about is getting comfortable in improvising by ear without knowing what key the song is in. This can be learned by training your ear. To me, this is - apart from learning to technically master the instrument - the most important aspect of music. Beeing able to instantly interact with a piece or other musicians - no communication, no thinking - just emotion.

I personally learned it by working with my ex-teacher in studio on a very huge zappa-esque production that we´ve been recording for the past 4 years (and still no end in sight). I remember the first time i entered his studio. I sat there with my guitar, slightly nervous, and listened to one of his pieces which i´ve never heard before. Then he said "now play". I had no idea what to do. I helplessly stumbled across the fretboard desperately looking for the right notes. That was the hard way learning to trust your ear since his music is FAR from beeing simple. But now i´m thankfull for that.
Each time i went into his studio i improved. I have improved my ear and my feel to a point where i can instantly create lines over almost any given chord progression without beeing told about the chords in advance. Of course every now and then you will throw in a wrong note - especially when it comes to wierd chord-structures but thats just natural.

Having learned this lesson, music is way more fun since it comes more natural. i sit there listening to a tune on the radio or any given CD and i can play along without having to think about "now what progression could this be and what mode could i use". I remember a time when i was unable to put a tune that i had in my head to the guitar. Now i can.

Listen to as many different styles of music as possible. Try to play along with any given song. Listen to what the other musicians do. Don't think the guitar is the most important instrument in a band - its just one aspect - there are also times when playing the right thing means to play nothing - after all music is the space between the notes. Record yourself and monitor your progress. Trust me - this is the most important waste of time imaginable! Its more fun than practicing your scales up and down the neck. I´m not saying you should ditch all theory - but don't let it become a cage for your musical mind. You want to express yourself musically. That requires a certain level of maturity. Lerning to be yourself and express yourself honestly is a way of personal growth. Try to see the whole picture. Technique and theory are just parts of the puzzle - not the whole thing.

"Getting that spacey lydian sound" is more than just using the lydian scale over any old chord progression. The harmony helps to dictate what scale to use and what the scale will sound like. If you play F Lydian over a 1, 4, 5 in C, it's going to sound just like C Ionian. You need the right chords to play over to get that sound... Satch's "Flying in a Blue Dream", for example, is a camp from C to D to C. The key is G Major, with the tonal center being a C, so voila, C Lydian is the scale of choice, and you really get that lydian sound out of it.

You want to get a Mixolydian sound? Playing D Mixolydian over G, D, Em, C won't do it, no that's G Major key with a G tonal center. However, if you play D, C, G, G, you can use the D Mixolydian because of harmony makes it sound right.

All a mode or scale is, is what quality each degree has against a given root. The only difference between the major scale and the lydian mode is the major scale's fourth degree is a perfect fourth above the root. In the lydian the fourth degree is an augmented fourth above the root. So the lydian sound is basically this interval and how it interacts with the key tone. Otherwise there the same scale.

Playing or thinking C lydian when the key is G major is thinking too much. It's the same scale. ALl scales or modes are altered major scales. So playing a mode is just playing an altered scale over a given key. So if the harmony is in G major, using G lydian for the solo is modal. Using C lydian is nothing more than playing the G major scale. See what I mean. Modally writting is using contrast.